Well, either that or it’s because they observe all the elements of the Catholic liturgy, and then they look at the New Testament and the Apostolic Fathers, and instead of lacking insight or understanding, they genuinely disagree with you as to whether or not there is a correspondence between the two.

It’s all very well to then step in and say “ah, but you need to understand that the Catholic church considers that the liturgy developed over many years and the church has the authority to do this.” OK, fine, but then it’s no good finding fault with other Christians when they don’t see the appearance of these liturgies int he New Testament or the early fathers.
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“See Brendan, that is exactly what I mean. Plenty of Christians will look at the simple examples you gave, then they will look at the structure of a Catholic litury, and just shake their head, saying “no – these are very different.”

Which is probably due to the fact that many Christians don’t have a solid understanding of either the Mass, the history of Christian liturgy, and the role/authority of the Church in liturgical development.

This claim (about failing to see the connection between the writings of the Apostolic Fathers and Scripture, etc) could also just as easily be applied to an evangelical praise and worship session, or a mainline Protestant communion service.

In fact, I would argue that it applies even more so to Protestant worship, because the Church Fathers write clearly about the Real Presence – and other things which lie at the heart of Catholic liturgy – and yet this plays absolutely no part of Protestant worship.

I think this is where some much bigger issues come into play, such as the role of the office of the Ordained Priesthood that Christ established during His time here on earth, and it’s relation to the liturgy, which flows from, and leads back to, the Eucharist – which is the “source and summit” of our faith.

And then there is the role of legitimate development of liturgical practice as our theological understanding of different issues relating to the central mysteries of the liturgy and our Faith deepen – remember, the Catholic Church has had 2000 years to develop and grow her liturgy, molding it more and more to accurately sign and participate in the sacrifice of Christ at Calvary.

I think a lot of other Christians have great confusion about Catholic liturgy simply because they don’t understand that everything that is done in Catholic liturgy is done for some very important theological reasons – and that the so-called complexities of structure, etc, are actually very simple, and rather obvious once one begins to understand them.

In fact, the complexity has a lot to do with the preciseness with which the Church seeks to sign the deep mysteries of salvation and redemption which are encapsulated in our earthly liturgy – this desire for preciseness is much the same as found in authentic philosophy, where the use of words (and gestures, in the case of liturgy) becomes vitally important if the fullness of truth is hoped to be arrived at and transmitted.

This so-called complexity actually helps to bring a stability and authenticity to the worshiping community, who, rather than being constantly plagued by personality driven services and issues of fashion and trend capturing their worship, are given a structure within which the important graces being transmitted are signed and participated in as accurately and as faithfully as possible.
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“You’ll be well awate of course Brendan, that many simply don’t believe what you’ve said about the early church. They will say that the relatively sparse liturgy of the Lord’s Supper is all the evidence that we have of this structured liturgy you speak of, and when you say that the early church – after they moved out of the synagogues and temples – practiced the same kind of scripture liturgy that you have in mind, the will flick endlessly through the New Testament and the Apostolic Fathers and say “so… where is it?”

Well, I guess you’d start with the Gospel accounts of the Last Supper which show very clear preparations beforehand (Matt 26:18), and some pretty precise actions on the part of Christ in regards during the Last Supper, starting with the washing of the feet, and then the actions with the bread and wine, and finally the command to “do this in memory of me” – which obviously the early Church took seriously because Paul writes to the Church at Corinth about proper practices in regards to the Eucharist in 1 Corinthians 11 & 12 (where he also passes on some other very specific prescriptions in regards to conduct during liturgies).

Acts refers to Paul’s participation in Synagogue liturgy – in fact Acts 17:2 refers to Paul’s attendance at the Synagogue on the Sabbath as “his custom”.

And in regards to the Fathers, well, anyone who isn’t seeing the Mass described in the writings Early Church Fathers is engaging in some very, very selective reading of the Patristic writings.

Briefly, some examples…

From the Didache (70 AD)…

“Assemble on the Lord’s day, and break bread and offer the Eucharist; but first make confession of your faults, so that your sacrifice may be a pure one. Anyone who has a difference with his fellow is not to take part with you until he has been reconciled, so as to avoid any profanation of your sacrifice.”

Justin Martyr (151 AD)…

“but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus”

Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Philadelphians (110 AD)…

“Make certain, therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist; for there is but one Body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of union with his Blood, and one single altar of sacrifice—even as there is also but one bishop, with his clergy and my own fellow servitors, the deacons. This will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God”

Cyprian of Carthage (253 AD)…

“If Christ Jesus, our Lord and God, is himself the high priest of God the Father; and if he offered himself as a sacrifice to the Father; and if he commanded that this be done in commemoration of himself, then certainly the priest, who imitates that which Christ did, truly functions in place of Christ“

Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew (155 AD)…

“God speaks by the mouth of Malachi, one of the twelve [minor prophets], as I said before, about the sacrifices at that time presented by you: ‘I have no pleasure in you, says the Lord, and I will not accept your sacrifices at your hands; for from the rising of the sun to the going down of the same, my name has been glorified among the Gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering, for my name is great among the Gentiles . . . He then speaks of those Gentiles, namely us [Christians] who in every place offer sacrifices to him, that is, the bread of the Eucharist and also the cup of the Eucharist“
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I certainly wouldn’t want to be on the church cleaning roster that’s for sure!

Seriously though, my point wasn’t so much about the appropriateness of temple worship under the New Covenant, instead I was merely pointing out that Christ Himself participated in structured liturgy, as did the early Church, and that they didn’t have any issue with doing so.

I suppose I was trying to highlight the fact that anyone who thinks that Christ was some sort of evangelical/house church/throw your hands in the air like you just don’t care type are laboring under a false assumption.

In fact, it was He who gave us the first structured liturgy in the form of the Last Super, which He commanded us to do in His memory whenever we are gathered together.
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While there is a set structure to every Mass – and for good reason – the Scriptural readings change at every Mass, and their are several different Eucharistic prayers that can be offered, oh, and of course there are the many different feast days, each of which bring their own little unique changes.

On top of this, before Mass, after reception of Communion, and after Mass, Catholics are meant to be engaged in silent personal prayer with Christ.

Speaking of Scriptural changes during Mass, if one was to attend Catholic Mass every day for the entire 3 year liturgical cycle, one would have heard almost the entire Bible read out.
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But you had finished composing it before you send it. it wasn’t real time.

It’s silly to think that if we use words that someone else wrote years ago, then God’s not really hearing from us, he’s hearing from St What’s his name. You will already have read through it yourself, understood it, and affirmed it, before praying those words.
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Actually what I had in mind was the mass, but you’re right, there are other examples.
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