Comments on: Middleton Grange, Free Exercise and the Gay Rights Movement UPDATED http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/07/middleton-grange-free-exercise-and-the-gay-rights-movement.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=middleton-grange-free-exercise-and-the-gay-rights-movement Philosophy of Religion, Ethics, Theology and Jurisprudence Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:03:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Patrick http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/07/middleton-grange-free-exercise-and-the-gay-rights-movement.html#comment-159182 Patrick Sun, 01 Jan 2012 19:35:16 +0000 http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=3679#comment-159182 In addition to other laws mentioned, the Private Schools Conditional Integration Act 1975 also applies. Middleton Grange College is a State-Integrated School under the terms of that enactment. In addition to other laws mentioned, the Private Schools Conditional Integration Act 1975 also applies. Middleton Grange College is a State-Integrated School under the terms of that enactment.

]]> By: Patrick http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/07/middleton-grange-free-exercise-and-the-gay-rights-movement.html#comment-159181 Patrick Sun, 01 Jan 2012 19:18:33 +0000 http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=3679#comment-159181 Pity the Private Schools Conditional Integration Act 1975 is too constrained. Pity the Private Schools Conditional Integration Act 1975 is too constrained.

]]> By: Max http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/07/middleton-grange-free-exercise-and-the-gay-rights-movement.html#comment-80474 Max Mon, 16 Aug 2010 04:31:24 +0000 http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=3679#comment-80474 Yes - but you are being deliberately uncharitable. Obviously there are exceptions... but pointing out an exception due to being related is irrelevant to considering the exception because of gender.... but anyway - we will I guess never agree upon this issue. But I don't think agreement on this is essential to faith :) Yes – but you are being deliberately uncharitable. Obviously there are exceptions… but pointing out an exception due to being related is irrelevant to considering the exception because of gender…. but anyway – we will I guess never agree upon this issue. But I don’t think agreement on this is essential to faith :)

]]> By: Matt http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/07/middleton-grange-free-exercise-and-the-gay-rights-movement.html#comment-80456 Matt Mon, 16 Aug 2010 03:33:21 +0000 http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=3679#comment-80456 Max you ask <i>So Matt…. do you support sex and marriage between a man and a woman?</i> Yes <i>Now let’s say you answer yes… in general… then I suddenly go BUT… what about a father and his daughter? What if you are shagging your sister? What if they also have sex with other people? Would ANY of these be a counter example to the idea of marriage between a man and a woman,…</i> That would depend on the reasons I gave for supporting heterosexual marriage, if I said heterosexual marriage was licit because it involves people who love each other, then that would be a valid counter example. If I did not give this as my reason it would not be. Its not a hard inference take the position VV supported [1] sex occurs between people who love each other it cannot be wrong . Conjoin it with the contention that [2] brothers and sisters love each other. What follows? Max you ask So Matt…. do you support sex and marriage between a man and a woman?

Yes

Now let’s say you answer yes… in general… then I suddenly go BUT… what about a father and his daughter? What if you are shagging your sister? What if they also have sex with other people? Would ANY of these be a counter example to the idea of marriage between a man and a woman,…

That would depend on the reasons I gave for supporting heterosexual marriage, if I said heterosexual marriage was licit because it involves people who love each other, then that would be a valid counter example. If I did not give this as my reason it would not be.

Its not a hard inference take the position VV supported [1] sex occurs between people who love each other it cannot be wrong . Conjoin it with the contention that [2] brothers and sisters love each other. What follows?

]]> By: Max http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/07/middleton-grange-free-exercise-and-the-gay-rights-movement.html#comment-80452 Max Mon, 16 Aug 2010 03:21:28 +0000 http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=3679#comment-80452 So Matt.... do you support sex and marriage between a man and a woman? Now let's say you answer yes... in general... then I suddenly go BUT... what about a father and his daughter? What if you are shagging your sister? What if they also have sex with other people? Would ANY of these be a counter example to the idea of marriage between a man and a woman,.... I know people who defend heterosexual marriage often evade these counter examples, the problem is they are perfectly cogent. But obviously I am taking the piss. You can see this- so just apply the same principle consistently. I know you have the ability to do this when your conservative blinkers are not on. So Matt…. do you support sex and marriage between a man and a woman?

Now let’s say you answer yes… in general… then I suddenly go BUT… what about a father and his daughter? What if you are shagging your sister? What if they also have sex with other people? Would ANY of these be a counter example to the idea of marriage between a man and a woman,…. I know people who defend heterosexual marriage often evade these counter examples, the problem is they are perfectly cogent.

But obviously I am taking the piss. You can see this- so just apply the same principle consistently. I know you have the ability to do this when your conservative blinkers are not on.

]]> By: Max http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/07/middleton-grange-free-exercise-and-the-gay-rights-movement.html#comment-80449 Max Mon, 16 Aug 2010 03:14:13 +0000 http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=3679#comment-80449 Yes... I know full well why you did it... but then again they may be in Christchurch visiting their sick grandmother... who knows....? Yes… I know full well why you did it… but then again they may be in Christchurch visiting their sick grandmother… who knows….?

]]> By: Madeleine http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/07/middleton-grange-free-exercise-and-the-gay-rights-movement.html#comment-80052 Madeleine Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:56:50 +0000 http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=3679#comment-80052 Max wrote: <i>"Is it your policy to reveal where contributors live….???"</i> Not at all. Matt's and my normal policy is simply to expose impossibilities, contradictions, inconsistencies, logical absurdities and the like in the comments people leave on our blog. Primarily we apply this to arguments but of course, in principle, there is no reason why it could not extend to other disciplines like, oh I don't know, geography... Max wrote: “Is it your policy to reveal where contributors live….???”

Not at all. Matt’s and my normal policy is simply to expose impossibilities, contradictions, inconsistencies, logical absurdities and the like in the comments people leave on our blog. Primarily we apply this to arguments but of course, in principle, there is no reason why it could not extend to other disciplines like, oh I don’t know, geography…

]]> By: Matt http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/07/middleton-grange-free-exercise-and-the-gay-rights-movement.html#comment-80048 Matt Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:44:27 +0000 http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=3679#comment-80048 Max, what I said was not sophistry first, as you yourself note V V was making a judgement, and this does contradict the claim he was not being judgemental or he was accepting all religions. You are welcome to dismiss positions by calling them prejudice but that does not change the fact that when you do this you are making judgements and refusing to accept certain views. Hence slogans to the effect that you are not are false. Second, I was not raising other issues of sexual ethics I was simply pointing out the implications of what vv said. If you claim homosexual conduct is permitted by God because the partners love each other, then you are committed to the claim that any sexual activity where people love each other is permissible and the counter examples I offered show cases where this is false. I know people who defend homosexual conduct often evade these counter examples, the problem is they are perfectly cogent. Max, what I said was not sophistry first, as you yourself note V V was making a judgement, and this does contradict the claim he was not being judgemental or he was accepting all religions. You are welcome to dismiss positions by calling them prejudice but that does not change the fact that when you do this you are making judgements and refusing to accept certain views. Hence slogans to the effect that you are not are false.

Second, I was not raising other issues of sexual ethics I was simply pointing out the implications of what vv said. If you claim homosexual conduct is permitted by God because the partners love each other, then you are committed to the claim that any sexual activity where people love each other is permissible and the counter examples I offered show cases where this is false.

I know people who defend homosexual conduct often evade these counter examples, the problem is they are perfectly cogent.

]]> By: Matt http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/07/middleton-grange-free-exercise-and-the-gay-rights-movement.html#comment-80045 Matt Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:34:55 +0000 http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=3679#comment-80045 No Max its not our policy, however when someone <i>claims</i> to be a student from a high school in Christchurch and claims to express views which are held by the majority at the school. Don't you think they have made the place they live relevant. No Max its not our policy, however when someone claims to be a student from a high school in Christchurch and claims to express views which are held by the majority at the school. Don’t you think they have made the place they live relevant.

]]> By: Max http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/07/middleton-grange-free-exercise-and-the-gay-rights-movement.html#comment-80021 Max Sun, 15 Aug 2010 05:31:26 +0000 http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=3679#comment-80021 ;) ;)

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