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	<title>MandM &#187; Law Studies</title>
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		<title>Madeleine Admitted to the Bar</title>
		<link>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2011/06/madeleine-admitted-to-the-bar.html?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=madeleine-admitted-to-the-bar</link>
		<comments>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2011/06/madeleine-admitted-to-the-bar.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2011 04:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Family]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Law Studies]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=9343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This morning my children and I sat in the Auckland High Court to watch Madeleine be admitted to the Bar. The ceremony had the solemn pomp and formality of Barristers wigs, robes and when Madeleine spoke for the first time in open court as an enrolled Barrister and Solicitor of the High Court of New Zealand she [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: justify;">This morning my children and I sat in the Auckland High Court to watch Madeleine be admitted to the Bar. The ceremony had the solemn pomp and formality of Barristers wigs, robes and when Madeleine spoke for the first time in open court as an enrolled Barrister and Solicitor of the High Court of New Zealand she opened with “if it pleases your Honour”.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">I am very proud of Madeleine today she has overcome a lot of obstacles to get to this day.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">When I first met Madeleine 15 years ago she was a single mother struggling to raise two kids whilst working part-time and studying towards a law degree. (She wrote of some of those struggles in <a title="In Pursuit of an LLB – Some News!" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/08/in-pursuit-of-an-llb-some-news.html">In Pursuit of an LLB</a>). After we married she took several years off to raise our children and support me in my theological studies. She returned to law school in 2008 when the company she was working for as a Personal and Legal Assistant bonded her to do complete her law studies part-time.</p>
<p><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-9351" style="margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 7px; margin-top: 6px; margin-bottom: 0px; border: 1px solid black;" title="Enrolled Barrister and Solicitor of the High Court, Madeleine Flannagan" src="http://www.mandm.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/reas-225x300.jpg" alt="Enrolled Barrister and Solicitor of the High Court, Madeleine Flannagan" width="162" height="216" /></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">A month after her return to law school in 2008 a car accident left Madeleine with a serious neck injury. Back then she was in severe pain, taking mind altering pain medication which only partially controlled the pain while she waited for surgery. With a sitting tolerance of 20 minutes she was unable to attend lectures and unable to sit through exams or do big stints at the computer. She also lost her job as a result of this but she was determined to not lose her chance at attaining entrance to the law profession. She persevered with only 1 or 2 papers at a time. I drove into Auckland University to tape her lectures and take notes for her. She had to learn how to study and write assignments in 20 minute bursts, something she found extremely frustrating as even with lots of breaks she&#8217;d end up in awful pain after a few hours. Exams were very difficult for her given her pain limitations but she would not take a semester off. She kept going.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">She completed her LLB mid 2010 (she had started it 17 years earlier in 1993). She completed her Certificate of Professional Legal Studies (the NZ equivalent of the bar exams) at the end f 2010 &#8211; she was nearly there &#8211; but then she got hit by ACC deciding her injury was “degenerative” which saw her salary compensation cut off and then towards the end of 2010 her former spouse laid a complaint against her character with the Law Society from jail causing her application for a Certificate of Character to be delayed while the complaint was investigated. This put everything on hold for 8 months but in May, after the Law Society asked her ex to provide evidence to support his claims and he failed to do so despite being granted an extension of time, the complaint was dismissed and Madeleine was declared a fit and proper person to practice law in New Zealand. With her Certificate of Character in hand she was clear to apply for admission and this morning Madeleine was admitted to the Bar.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Congratulations Madeleine, the children and I love you and are all very proud of you; your perseverance is a real inspiration to us all. Enjoy your celebrations tonight.</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><a rel="attachment wp-att-9345" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2011/06/madeleine-admitted-to-the-bar.html/fam"><img class="size-large wp-image-9345 alignnone" style="border: 1px solid black;" title="Madeleine's Bar Admission" src="http://www.mandm.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Fam-1024x768.jpg" alt="Madeleine's Bar Admission" width="574" height="430" /></a></p>
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		<slash:comments>25</slash:comments>
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		<title>The Separation of Church and Self: Rethinking Separationism</title>
		<link>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/12/the-separation-of-church-and-self-rethinking-separationism.html?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=the-separation-of-church-and-self-rethinking-separationism</link>
		<comments>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/12/the-separation-of-church-and-self-rethinking-separationism.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 08:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Madeleine</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Cases]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jurists]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Political Philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Public Policy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion in Public Life]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Rights and Freedoms]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Role of the State]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christopher Eberle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Coercion Test]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Doctrine of Religious Restraint]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Endorsement Test]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Freedom of Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gerald Gaus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[James Madison]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Rawls]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jürgen Habermas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Justice Scalia]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Law Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lee v Weisman]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lemon Test]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Nicholas Wolterstorff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philip Devine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philip Quinn]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophy of Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Richard Rorty]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Robert Audi]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Separationism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Stephen Carter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Terence Cuneo]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Vincent Phillip Muñoz]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=4706</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is it just for a pluralistic society to ground its public policy on religious premises? What role should religion play in such a society? Debate over questions like these has figured in theology, philosophy, political science, jurisprudence and popular culture for centuries. In contemporary Western pluralistic society the debate continues. Even for those unfamiliar with [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: justify;">Is it just for a pluralistic society to ground its public policy on religious premises? What role should religion play in such a society? Debate over questions like these has figured in theology, philosophy, political science, jurisprudence and popular culture for centuries. In contemporary Western pluralistic society the debate continues. Even for those unfamiliar with its nuances at the higher levels the effect of the standard view, as described by Stephen Carter, is immediately familiar:</p>
<blockquote style="text-align: justify;"><p style="text-align: justify;">“One good way to end a conversation – or start an argument – is to tell a group of well educated professionals that you hold a political position (preferably a controversial one such as being against abortion or pornography) because it is required by your understanding of God’s will. In the unlikely event that anyone hangs around to talk with you about it, chances are that you will be challenged on the ground that you are intent on imposing your religious beliefs on other people. And in contemporary political and legal culture, nothing is worse.”<a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftn1">[1]</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><img class="alignright size-full wp-image-4730" style="margin-left: 7px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 3px; margin-bottom: 0px;" title="James Madison" src="http://www.mandm.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Madison.jpg" alt="James Madison" width="135" height="168" /></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Carter is referring to the separationist understanding of religion and public life, the idea that in a contemporary pluralistic society significant restraint must be put on the political role of religious reasons. This restraint is negative; when a functionary deliberates over a proposed policy it is not justified for that functionary to decide to support or oppose that policy on grounds derived from religion. A corollary of this is that citizens should not try to influence public policy by appealing to religious reasons. Separationists argue that the public policy of a pluralistic society must be able to be justified by a plausible <em>secular</em> justification in order for it to be just to all. Religious beliefs, while utilised and followed in private, should be kept separate from public policy debates, the administration of public institutions and the deliberation of public functionaries.<span id="more-4706"></span></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Dominant advocates of this view include philosophers John Rawls, Robert Audi, Gerald Gaus and Jürgen Habermas. In “Religion as a Conversation-Stopper” Richard Rorty described separationism as:</p>
<blockquote style="text-align: justify;"><p style="text-align: justify;">“the happy, Jeffersonian compromise that the Enlightenment reached with the religious. This compromise consists in privatizing religion — keeping it out of … “the public square,” making it seem bad taste to bring religion into discussions of public policy.”<a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftn2">[2]</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Advocates for religious restraint typically claim that it need not be codified. It is simply a moral requirement which applies to all citizens regardless of their role within society &#8212; some form of censure rather than legal stricture is what is suggested. This is what Rorty means when he refers to it being “bad taste” to bring religion into the public square. Notwithstanding the separationists stated intention, in my thesis I will argue that this call for religious restraint is not simply theoretical philosophy, which is present in society only by way of self-imposed moral restraint or the sort of peer-pressure Carter’s quote alluded to. I will argue that the norm of religious restraint is increasingly present in our public policy and jurisprudence.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Rorty alluded to Jefferson’s famous “Wall of Separation Letter” where Jefferson set out his understanding as to how the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause should be interpreted. Tellingly, this suggests a link between the separationist philosophy and the way the religious freedom components of Bills of Rights are interpreted. These components address the very same questions I opened with; how should religion fit into a just pluralistic society? The purported answers are commonly given in slogans, “freedom of religion”, “free exercise”, “freedom to manifest one’s religion” and statements declaring the separation of church and state, opposing Establishment and so on. I say ‘slogans’ because such clauses are typically light on detail; fleshing out what they mean and how they are to apply at a practical levels, to specific cases falls to the commentators, the lawyers who propose particular interpretations in their submissions and ultimately the judiciary. The resulting body of jurisprudence reflects the perspectives of the dominant views in society.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Consider the US Supreme Court&#8217;s three leading Establishment Clause precedents: Lemon, Endorsement and Coercion. The first of the three parts of the Lemon Test requires public policy to have a valid secular purpose, a non-religious rationale must be offered for all state actions. The Endorsement Test prohibits the state from &#8220;endorsing&#8221; religion over irreligion. The Coercion Test provides that the state must not coerce religious practice; not only must it not be required, but in <em>Lee v Weisman</em> the application was shifted to what Justice Scalia, in his dissent, termed a “test of psychological coercion”. The US Supreme Court essentially took the view that being one of few (or the only one) to opt out of a religious practice in a public setting was considered a form of state coercion by peer pressure. I will argue that in each of the dominant Establishment tests, a requirement for the state to place a restraint on religion or for religion to be kept from public life can be seen. This stricture affects public policy and is essentially separationism in codified form.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Despite its current orthodoxy, separationism has its critics, particularly in philosophy and law. These critics collectively hold that although separationism claims to operate impartially, it, in fact, gives public hegemony to secular perspectives. Critics argue that the call for religious restraint is unjust for religious citizens as it requires conformity to secularism and thus privileges secularism over religion. Philip Quinn observes;</p>
<blockquote style="text-align: justify;"><p style="text-align: justify;">These principles impose burdens on religious people that [the separationist] nowhere suggests imposing on nonreligious people. … [The separationist] does not propose that nonreligious people must be sufficiently motivated by adequate religious reason for their advocacy or support of restrictive laws or policies. The lack of symmetry is striking.<a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftn3">[3]</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Christopher Eberle, Terence Cuneo agree there is a clear asymmetry in the way religious beliefs are treated by the state compared with secular beliefs. They question why religious believers, who participate in public, are required to bracket beliefs they hold as both true, important and relevant to the issue; Stephen Carter labels this “[t]he separation of church and self.”<a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftn4">[4]</a> Nicholas Wolterstorff argues that separationism violates the equal freedom component of a pluralistic democratic society, “Using their religious convictions in making their decisions and conducting their debates on political issues is <em>part of what constitutes conducting their lives as they see fit</em>.”<a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftn5">[5]</a>[<em>Emphasis added</em>] Philip Devine point out that “Freedom of religion is not only the freedom to advocate religious (or irreligious) ideas; it is the freedom to form, sustain, participate in, and transmit, forms of community life”.<a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftn6">[6]</a> Yet separationists maintain that some form of religious restraint is not only in accord with the notion of liberal democracy but essential to it. As Rorty put it, “we shall not be able to keep a democratic political community going unless the religious believers remain willing to trade privatization for a guarantee of religious liberty.”<a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftn7">[7]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The dominant tests seek to apply a reading of Jefferson’s “Wall of Separation Letter”; but in an article in First Things entitled “<a href="http://www.firstthings.com/print.php?type=article&amp;year=2007&amp;month=01&amp;title_link=establishing-free-exercise-1" target="_blank">Establishing Free Exercise</a>,” Vincent Phillip Muñoz argues that James Madison, the author of the First Amendment and a noted authority on the subject, did not intend this;</p>
<blockquote style="text-align: justify;"><p style="text-align: justify;">“When editing the religious freedom amendment to Virginia&#8217;s state Bill of Rights, Madison proposed the following:</p>
<p style="text-align: justify; padding-left: 30px;">‘That religion or the duty we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, being under the direction of reason and conviction only, not violence or compulsion, all men are equally entitled to the full and free exercise of it accord[in]g to the dictates of conscience; and therefore that <em>no man or class of men ought, on account of religion to be invested with peculiar emoluments or privileges, nor subjected to any penalties or disabilities</em>.’</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Madison interpreted &#8220;free exercise&#8221; to mean no privileges and no penalties on account of religion.”<a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftn8">[8]</a>[<em>Emphasis added</em>]</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Munoz argues that Madison’s “no privileges, no penalties” test could unify “the no-establishment and free exercise provisions into a coherent whole that recognizes the legitimate concerns of both sides of the debate while, at the same time, respecting our nation&#8217;s founding heritage.”<a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftn9">[9]</a></p>
<blockquote style="text-align: justify;"><p style="text-align: justify;">&#8220;no privileges, no penalties&#8221; would not require forays into students&#8217; psychological feelings. Judges would not need to inquire if school children feel like &#8220;insiders&#8221; or &#8220;outsiders,&#8221; or if a child might perceive the state to be &#8220;endorsing&#8221; religion, which are necessarily subjective judgments. Courts would only need to ask if, on account of religion, religious citizens as such were granted a material benefit or if nonreligious citizens were subject to a penalty like a fine or imprisonment. For <em>Newdow</em>, the relevant question is: Was Michael Newdow&#8217;s daughter subject to some form of disciplinary action because she would not say the Pledge? Since she was not, the Pledge stands.”<a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftn10">[10]</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The “no privileges, no penalties” test upholds freedom of religion and separation of church and state by essentially permitting religion to have a place in public life as long as those who engage in public religious conduct do not gain a privilege for doing so and those who do not wish to participate are both free to opt out and are not penalised for doing so. Interestingly, the New Zealand jurisdiction’s approach, within the limited cases to date &#8211; where as long as one can ‘opt out’ of a religious practice there is no coercion, has some affinity or parallel with a “no privileges, no penalties” approach. Munoz’s appropriation of Madison has the potential to be<em> a just way forward in both the debate within philosophy and in law. It </em>does not have the privatising effect on religion that the dominant tests do, neither does it have the asymmetry.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>I have this week been accepted into the University of Auckland&#8217;s LLM program. In 2011 I will start my studies towards a Masters of Law by thesis-only. This blog post is part of the proposal I have submitted to write it on &#8211; it may change as my supervisors and I work things out but this is the gist of what is in my head. I&#8217;d love to hear your thoughts &#8211; it will help get me thinking on where I am going with this!</em></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><strong>RELATED POSTS:</strong><br />
 <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/06/contra-mundum-secularism-and-public-life.html">Contra Mundum: Secularism and Public Life</a><br />
 <a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-i.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-i.html"><br />
 </a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-ii.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part II</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part III" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iii.html"><br />
 </a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iii.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part III</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part IV" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iv.html"><br />
 </a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iv.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part IV</a><br />
 <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-v.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part V</a><br />
 <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/12/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-vi.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part VI</a></p>
<hr style="text-align: justify;" size="1" />
<p style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftnref1">[1]</a> Stephen Carter <em>The Culture of Disbelief: How American Law and Politics Trivialise Religious Devotion</em> (1993) 23-24.<br />
 <a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftnref2">[2]</a> Richard Rorty “Religion as a Conversation-Stopper” (1994) 3:1 Common Knowledge 1, 2.<br />
 <a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftnref3">[3]</a> Philip Quinn “Religion in the Public Square: The Place of Religious Convictions in Political Debate” (2000) 60:2 <cite>Philosophy and Phenomenological Research</cite> 487 (book review).<br />
 <a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftnref4">[4]</a> Carter, above n 1, 1.<br />
 <a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftnref5">[5]</a> Nicholas Wolterstorff “The Role of Religion in Decision and Discussion of Political Issues” in Nicholas Wolterstorff &amp; Robert Audi (eds) <em>Religion in the Public Square: The Place of Religious Convictions in Political Debate</em> (1997) 77.<br />
 <a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftnref6">[6]</a> Philip Devine <em><a href="http://philipdevine.wordpress.com/2009/11/22/we-chap-10/" target="_blank">We: A Study in Social and Political Philosophy</a></em>, Ch 10 accessed 10 December 2010.<br />
 <a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftnref7">[7]</a> Rorty, above n 2, 3.<br />
 <a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftnref8">[8]</a> Vincent Phillip Muñoz “<a href="http://www.firstthings.com/print.php?type=article&amp;year=2007&amp;month=01&amp;title_link=establishing-free-exercise-1" target="_blank">Establishing Free Exercise</a>” <em>First Things</em> (January 2004) 139-142, 141.<br />
 <a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftnref9">[9]</a> Ibid 139.<br />
 <a href="file:///C:/Users/Madeleine/Documents/Law/Masters/LLM%20Research%20Proposal.docx#_ftnref10">[10]</a> Ibid 142.</span></p>
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		<title>Congratulations Madeleine Flannagan LLB</title>
		<link>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/09/congratulations-madeleine.html?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=congratulations-madeleine</link>
		<comments>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/09/congratulations-madeleine.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2010 12:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Law Studies]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=4131</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Today Madeleine graduates with her LLB (Bachelor of Laws). She started this 17 years ago, took time out to have two of our children and started again in 2008. Despite a car accident, injury and constant pain she has persevered and today receives recognition for her achievement. I am so proud of my wife, her [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: justify;">Today Madeleine graduates with her LLB (Bachelor of Laws). She started this 17 years ago, took time out to have two of our children and started again in 2008. Despite a car accident, injury and constant pain she has persevered and today receives recognition for her achievement.</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><a rel="attachment wp-att-4140" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/09/congratulations-madeleine.html/llb-graduation-005"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-4140" title="Madeleine Flannagan LLB" src="http://www.mandm.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/LLB-Graduation-005.jpg" alt="Madeleine Flannagan LLB" width="434" height="326" /></a></p>
<div style="text-align: justify;">
<p style="text-align: justify;">I am so proud of my wife, her determination, character and grit in doing this has been an inspiration to me.</p>
<p><strong>RELATED POSTS:</strong><br />
 <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/08/in-pursuit-of-an-llb-some-news.html">In Pursuit of an LLB</a></p>
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		<title>Finally! The Words I Have Waited 17 Years to See</title>
		<link>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/07/finally-the-words-i-have-waited-17-years-to-see.html?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=finally-the-words-i-have-waited-17-years-to-see</link>
		<comments>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/07/finally-the-words-i-have-waited-17-years-to-see.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 00:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Madeleine</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Law Studies]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=3644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just logged into nDeva, the University of Auckland&#8217;s student records intranet and I just now read the words I have been waiting to read since my first day at Waikato Law School back on 1 March 1993: After everything I went through to get here, as I shared some of in my post In [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just logged into nDeva, the University of Auckland&#8217;s student records intranet and I just now read the words I have been waiting to read since my first day at Waikato Law School back on 1 March 1993:<a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/nDeva.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3645" title="Welcome to Graduation!" src="http://www.mandm.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/nDeva.jpg" alt="Welcome to Graduation!" width="554" height="313" /></a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/NDeva2.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3646" title="You are eligible to graduate LLB" src="http://www.mandm.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/NDeva2.jpg" alt="You are eligible to graduate LLB" width="557" height="468" /></a></p>
<p>After everything I went through to get here, as I shared some of in my post <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/08/in-pursuit-of-an-llb-some-news.html">In Pursuit of an LLB</a>, I am just so happy.</p>
<p><strong>RELATED POSTS:</strong><a title="Permanent Link to Back to Law School" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2008/03/back-to-law-school.html"><br />
 Back to Law School</a><br />
 <a title="Permanent Link to Update on Madeleine’s Car Accident and Recovery" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2008/06/update-on-madeleines-car-accident-and-recovery.html">Update on Madeleine’s Car Accident and Recovery</a><br />
 <a title="Permanent Link to In Pursuit of an LLB – Some News!" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/08/in-pursuit-of-an-llb-some-news.html">In Pursuit of an LLB – Some News!</a><br />
 <a title="Permanent Link to Power Cuts and Deadlines" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/10/power-cuts-and-deadlines.html">Power Cuts and Deadlines</a><br />
 <a title="Permanent Link to Putting Down my Pen" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/06/putting-down-my-pen.html">Putting Down my Pen<br />
 </a></p>
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		<title>Putting Down my Pen</title>
		<link>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/06/putting-down-my-pen.html?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=putting-down-my-pen</link>
		<comments>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/06/putting-down-my-pen.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 04:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Madeleine</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Law Studies]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=3131</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In an exam room somewhere on the campus of the University of Auckland I just put down my pen. (Thanks to the wonders of blog post scheduling I can both blog and write an exam contemporaneously). Unlike every other time I have put down my pen at the end of an exam during the long [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: justify;">In an exam room somewhere on the campus of the University of Auckland I just put down my pen. (Thanks to the wonders of blog post scheduling I can both blog and write an exam contemporaneously).</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Unlike every other time I have put down my pen at the end of an exam during the long drawn out process that has been my LLB studies this time was special because this time I did not just complete my exam script,<em> I completed my degree!</em></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">I began my law studies on 1 March 1993. I had no idea when I entered that first lecture that it would be 17 years before I saw this moment but here I am. As I shared in my post <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/08/in-pursuit-of-an-llb-some-news.html">In Pursuit of an LLB</a>, I have overcome some fairly major obstacles to get here so this moment is very sweet!</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">P.S. Yes, now my degree is complete blogging will pick up &#8211; this semester&#8217;s workload has been very, very full.</p>
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		<title>Can State Appropriation of Minerals in Privately Held Land be Justified? Resources Needed</title>
		<link>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/01/can-state-appropriation-of-minerals-in-privately-held-land-be-justified-resources-needed.html?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=can-state-appropriation-of-minerals-in-privately-held-land-be-justified-resources-needed</link>
		<comments>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/01/can-state-appropriation-of-minerals-in-privately-held-land-be-justified-resources-needed.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 01:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Madeleine</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Announcements]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Due Process]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Professional]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Public Policy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Rights and Freedoms]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jurisprudence]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Law Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Minerals]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mining Law]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Property Rights]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sub-Soil Land Rights]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=2659</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am currently undertaking my second-to-last paper in pursuit of my Bachelor of Law (LLB).  Due to a complicated bunch of factors involving the potential staleness of my papers, if I do not apply to the New Zealand Council of Legal Education for a completion certificate with an LLB and a Professional Legal Studies certificate [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: justify;">I am currently undertaking my second-to-last paper <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/08/in-pursuit-of-an-llb-some-news.html">in pursuit of my Bachelor of Law</a> (LLB).  Due to a complicated bunch of factors involving the potential staleness of my papers, if I do not apply to the New Zealand Council of Legal Education for a completion certificate with an LLB <em>and</em> a Professional Legal Studies certificate in hand prior to 31 Dec 2010, combined with limitations of my ability to do much more than one paper at the time due to my <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/tag/disc-replacement-surgery">neck injury and chronic pain issues</a> and due to the fact that with only two papers to go I need to submit three opinion papers (only one of which can be substituted with voluntary community legal service), I had little choice but to choose a summer school paper that had the option of an opinion credit. This set of circumstances has seen me engaged in the project for which I now hope some of our readers can help me with.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">My paper is <a href="http://www.law.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/cs-law-446-mining-and-natural-resources-law" class="broken_link" rel="nofollow">Mining and Natural Resource Law</a> (there is not much choice at Summer School). As an opinion topic we were allowed to take our budding legal specialty and apply it to any of the topics on the course outline. I like to take a philosophical rights and freedoms approach to most of what I research and write within the field of law so I have submitted and had approved a topic with a bit of a  jurisprudential twist. I intend to analyse the justifications given for the state appropriation of minerals in the sub-soil of privately owned  property.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Most articles I have found on state appropriation so far seem to tacitly assume that if the state has legislated that it owns the minerals in the sub-soil of privately owned land then the state’s action is justified or the author simply does not question this, even if he or she acknowledges that a few private property owners had an issue with this at the time, which is not helpful as I intend to question the justification.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">New Zealand philosophical writings from the perspective of classical liberal/pro-property rights/limited state angles are fairly difficult to find. Further international writings on this subject are not commonly cited in New Zealand so they too are hard to find. If any of our readers can point me to any good sources that might help me in the project or even if you can just leave your thoughts in the comments section (if I use your ideas in the work I promise to attribute them back to you) that would be most helpful.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The following is the gist of the direction I hope to  take.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Since at least the 16th century, the  maxim <em>cujus est solum</em>, <em>ejus est usque ad coelum et ad inferos</em> (Latin for for whoever owns the soil, it is theirs up to heaven and down to hell) meant that at common law, minerals in the sub-soil of land belonged to land owner. Such minerals were  assumed to be conveyed along with the land on its change of ownership unless wording in the conveyance  instrument specified otherwise. Until fairly recently, the last century or so, the only minerals <em>not</em> subject to this rule were gold and silver. The Case of Mines found “that by the  law all mines of gold and silver within the realm, whether they be in the lands  of the Queen, or of subjects, belong to the Queen by prerogative”. According to  Dr Robyn Anderson,[1]</p>
<blockquote style="text-align: justify;"><p>The Court of Exchequer  found in Case of Mines, that base metals – tin, lead, iron, copper, and  non-precious minerals – belonged to the owner of the soil, but that the right to  gold, silver, and their ores and admixtures, lay with the Crown. That right was  not an incident of ownership of the soil, but rather, an attribute of the  monarchy. The Elizabethan assertion of the prerogative reflected the pragmatic  needs of the developing English state to control the coinage, and finance an  army &#8230; [1]</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The argument that back in the 16th century the Monarch needed to be able to protect the realm by using coinage to raise an army (there was no standing army) and weapons to arm it, seems, prima facie, a reasonable justification for the state appropriation of gold and silver. However, in the last century or so many of  the base metals and minerals deemed non-precious in the Case of Mines are now  included in statutory reservations to the crown. This has reached the point in  2010 where, with few exceptions, the state currently owns almost all minerals in  territorial New Zealand and has exclusive right to alienate (or grant a licence  to alienate) most of those minerals from e<em>ven those lands held in private  ownership</em>. Further, in many circumstances, <em>land owners cannot even refuse consent</em> for prospective, exploration and mining to occur on their land.</p>
<blockquote style="text-align: justify;"><p>The New Zealand government owns all naturally occurring       petroleum (including both oil and gas), radioactive minerals,       and gold and silver in New Zealand. Any individual or company       wanting to prospect, explore or mine these substances must       obtain a permit under the Crown Minerals Act 1991 and pay the       specified fees and royalties [to the state]. The same rules apply to coal       and all other metallic and non-metallic minerals and       aggregates on Crown-owned land.</p>
<p>Mining of minerals and aggregates <em>other than petroleum,       radioactive minerals and gold and silver</em> on privately owned       land requires the consent of the landowner together with       resource consents from local authorities granted under       provisions of the Resource Management Act. [<em>Emphasis added</em>] [2]</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The current state of mineral rights in New Zealand seems to me, prima facie, to be a  violation of <em>ad coelum et ad  inferos</em> (the right of land ownership &#8220;down to hell&#8221; or in sub-soil), so the question I want to ask in my opinion is: what is the  basis for the state’s appropriation of sub-soil minerals from the lands of private  property owners and is it justified? The New Zealand army is not armed with gold and silver these days, further,  I cannot see any legitimate argument for why the state needs to own petroleum and &#8220;Nuclear Free New Zealand&#8221; does not have a nuclear weapons program (and are,  just a guess here,  highly unlikely to in the future) so what is with the state ownership of radioactive resources?</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Obviously 3,000 words will not give  me a lot of space to develop this topic so I will try to keep the topic to more of a  general overview but I need resources and fast both directly on this topic and on property rights generally so if you have any thoughts&#8230;</p>
<hr />
<p style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: x-small;">[1] </span><span style="font-size: x-small;">Robyn Anderson <a href="http://www.waitangi-tribunal.govt.nz/doclibrary/public/researchwhanui/theme/n/Chapt03.pdf"> Goldmining: Policy, Legislation, and Administration</a> (Rangahaua Whanui Report,  Waitangi Tribunal, Dec 1996) <em>RANGAHAUA Whanui NATIONAL Theme N: GOLDMINING:  Policy, Legislation, and Administration</em> (Robyn Anderson ed., 1996) 1.</span><span style="font-size: x-small;"><br />
 [2] Simon Nathan &#8220;<a href="http://www.TeAra.govt.nz/en/mining-and-underground-resources/4">Mining and underground resources &#8211; Mining regulation and education</a>&#8221; Te Ara &#8211; the Encyclopedia of New Zealand, updated 2-Mar-09.</span></p>
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		<title>Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part VI</title>
		<link>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/12/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-vi.html?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-vi</link>
		<comments>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/12/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-vi.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 05:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Madeleine</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[God and Morality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jurists]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophy of Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Political Philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion in Public Life]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Rights and Freedoms]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christopher Eberle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Doctrine of Religious Restraint]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Freedom of Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jurisprudence]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Law Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lydia McGrew]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Nicholas Wolterstorff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Phillip Quinn]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Public Policy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Robert Audi]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Stephen Carter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Terence Cuneo]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=2076</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In my last posts, beginning Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I,  I set out the doctrine of religious restraint and critiqued some of the key arguments in support of it. I looked at the objection that the argument from respect is too thin, that applied consistently it excludes too much and Audi’s response to [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>In my last posts, beginning </em><em><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-i.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I</a></em><em>,  I set out the doctrine of religious restraint and critiqued some of the key arguments in support of it. </em><em>I looked at the objection that the argument from respect is too thin, that applied consistently it excludes too much and</em><em> Audi’s response to this.</em><em> I examined and critiqued Gerald Gaus’ attempt to salvage the argument from epistemic inaccessibility and his idea </em><em>of open justification. In this post</em><em> I will look at the dangers of religion as a justification for its asymmetrical treatment within the DRR and conclude the series.<br />
 </em></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>B          The Dangers of Religion</em></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">One explanation as to why this asymmetry is applied to religious reasons is offered by Quinn; “Some people fear that religious argument is apt to be dangerously divisive.”<a href="#_ftn1">[82]</a> Audi concurs, “[religious reasons] are special in relation to liberal democracy even by contrast with [secular reasons] … that are not accessible to any normal adult.” <a href="#_ftn2">[83]</a> He gives five “salient points” to support his case, all based on the idea that religious reasons are dangerous to society. <a href="#_ftn3">[84]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">First Audi claims that religious reasons are often “directly or indirectly taken to represent an infallible authority”.<a href="#_ftn4">[85]</a> The second point is that religious people often “believe that anyone who does not identify with [the ultimate divine source] is forsaken, damned, or in some other way fundamentally deficient.”<a href="#_ftn5">[86]</a> Third, “religious reasons often dictate practices that are distinctively religious in content (such as prayer) or intent (such as preserving the fetus on the ground that it is a gift from God)”.<a href="#_ftn6">[87]</a> Fourth, with many religious leaders, especially leaders of cults, there is a risk that they are “cloaking their prejudices with absolute authority.”<a href="#_ftn7">[88]</a> Finally, Audi contends that religious people tend to be “highly and stubbornly passionate about the importance of everyone’s acting in accordance with religious reasons”.<a href="#_ftn8">[89]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Again these features are not unique to religion. As McGrew argues, all these features can be equally present in secular people and movements;<a href="#_ftn9">[90]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">It is sadly amusing to read this list and to consider how well its negative aspects apply to secular people and movements. Communism, for example, is as fanatical as any conventional religion and demands group-think on an unrivaled scale. Contemporary feminism aspires to control worldview, language, and behavior. The New Atheists are exceedingly passionate about making people behave in accordance with their own beliefs (making sure children are taught Darwinism as unquestioned fact, for example), and Richard Dawkins and P.Z. Myers have an inflated sense of self-importance that would make many a Christian megachurch pastor look modest by comparison. Dawkins is infamous for having repeatedly and insistently called a religious upbringing “child abuse,” and while Dawkins has shied away from the obvious legal implications of this accusation, not everyone who thinks as he does is so cautious. Other secularists, self-styled “comprehensive liberals,” have expressly advocated the use of the power of the state to monitor and limit parents’ ability to transmit their religion to their children (see Hitchcock, 2004). As for the vicious condemnation of children who do not fully conform to their parents’ secular ideology, a good example of this phenomenon is the strange story of Rebecca Walker, daughter of feminist icon Alice Walker. And, on the other hand, there are plenty of religious people who do not display such negative characteristics. It simply does not appear to be true that we reduce fanaticism, self-important leadership, attempts at thought control, and the like in society by reducing the role of religion in public life.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">McGrew suggests there are secular analogues of even Audi’s third reason, that religious reasons often dictate practices that are distinctively religious in content or intent;<a href="#_ftn10">[91]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">It would certainly be undesirable if people were being coerced to pray to any God, even the true God. But then, secular ideology can and sometimes does demand that we do homage to itself—in the form of changing our language to make it politically correct, for example, or treating two men or two women as “married” in all of our business activities. The problem with forcing people to pray to the true God is that the true God is not truly worshiped in that fashion. The problem with forcing people to pray to false gods and to pledge allegiance to false ideologies is that they are false. You will not avoid the problem of the coercion of conscience by limiting the role of religion in public life. You will only shift that problem so that the unreasonable coercion comes from some quarters rather than others.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Audi’s first point invites a parallel rejoinder. He defines infallible propositions as those that are “impossible that they be both endorsed or accepted by God and false”.<a href="#_ftn11">[92]</a> On this definition of infallibility <em>every</em> proposition is infallible. God, as Audi understands him, is omniscient. God only believes true propositions. It follows then that any proposition God accepts cannot be false; this is true whether it is a religious proposition or a secular one.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Audi’s main concern is that a person who believes an action is commanded by God believes that an omniscient, infallible being has endorsed that action. Appeals to purported divine commands are therefore problematic. However, some secular ethical theories face precisely the same problem.  One of the most influential secular theories, endorsed by ethicists as diverse as David Hume, Adam Smith, Henry Sidgwick, Richard Hare, Roderick Firth, John Stuart Mill, Tom Regan, Richard Brandt, Immanuel Kant and others, is the ideal observer theory. On this theory an action is wrong, if and only if, it would be proscribed by an ideal observer, by a person who is perfectly impartial and perfectly informed on all the relevant facts. A hypothetical ideal observer is no less infallible than religious believers take God to be. It is hard to see how invoking religious reasons is not acceptable but invoking the secular reasons is.<a href="#_ftn12">[93]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>C         Argument from Religious Wars</em><br />
 A more forcible danger of religion argument invokes the spectre of religious wars. Audi states “if religious considerations are not appropriately balanced with secular ones in matters of coercion, there is a special problem: a clash of Gods vying for social control. Such uncompromising absolutes easily lead to destruction and death”<a href="#_ftn13">[94]</a> Wolterstorff articulates the concern;<a href="#_ftn14">[95]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">One reason which liberals have offered ever since the emergence of liberalism in the seventeenth century is that it’s just too dangerous to let religious people debate political issues outside of their own confessional circles, and to act politically, on the basis of their religious views. The only way to forestall religious wars is to get people to stop invoking God and to stop invoking canonical scriptures when arguing and determining politics.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The adequacy of this argument can be contested on several grounds. First, Quinn, Greenwald and Wolterstorff note that while it was true of 17<sup>th</sup> century England, “social peace did depend on getting citizens to stop invoking God, canonical scriptures, and religious authorities when discussing politics in public”,<a href="#_ftn15">[96]</a> it is not plausible that such a danger exists in 21<sup>st</sup> century Western countries like New Zealand, Australia and the United States. Quinn notes, “current political debate in the United States exhibits failure to comply with Audi&#8217;s principles on a massive scale and yet shows no tendency to reignite the Wars of Religion of the early modern era.”<a href="#_ftn16">[97]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Wolterstorff makes two other related points. He notes that “the slaughter, torture, and generalised brutality of our century has mainly been conducted in the name of one or another secular cause&#8211;nationalism of many sorts, communism, fascism, patriotisms of various kinds, economic hegemony.”<a href="#_ftn17">[98]</a> Second, he notes that “many of the social movements in the modern world that have moved societies in the direction of liberal democracy have been deeply and explicitly religious in their orientation”<a href="#_ftn18">[99]</a> He cites the abolitionist movement, the civil rights movement and movements resisting communism, facism and apartheid as examples. The invocation of religious reasons risks war and civil strife when certain types of religious reasons are invoked in particular socio-political contexts. This is equally true of secular reasons; certain types of secular reasons can be dangerously incendiary in particular socio-political contexts. There seems no basis for an asymmetry between secular and religious reasons on these grounds.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Eberle and Cuneo add that 17<sup>th</sup> century “confessional conflict … [was] typically rooted in egregious violations of the right to religious freedom, when, for example, people are jailed, tortured, or otherwise abused because of their religious commitments.”<a href="#_ftn19">[100]</a> Given that few, if any, who appeal to religious reasons advocate such violations or could plausibly bring them about, such appeals are unlikely to have tumultuous effects.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">In terms of protecting freedom of religion from these kinds of abuses it is not obvious that secular reasons fare any better, “secularists have a long history of hostility to the right to religious freedom and, presumably, that hostility isn&#8217;t at all grounded in religious considerations”.<a href="#_ftn20">[101]</a> Moreover when<a href="#_ftn21">[102]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">religious believers have employed coercive power to violate the right to religious freedom, they themselves rarely have done so in a way that violates the DRR … when such rights have been violated, the justifications offered, even by religious believers, appeal to alleged requirements for social order, such as the need for uniformity of belief on basic normative issues. One theological apologist for religious repression, for example, writes this: ‘The king punishes heretics as enemies, as extremely wicked rebels, who endanger the peace of the kingdom, which cannot be maintained without the unity of the faith. That is why they are burnt in Spain’.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Similarly, Aquinas, in a Rawlsian vein, famously justified the suppression of heretics by appealing to the accepted political culture of his day which required that counterfeiters be executed.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Consequently, the religious wars of the 17<sup>th</sup> century were caused, not by the appeal to religious reasons <em>per se</em> but rather by the violation of religious freedom; this violation has often been defended on secular grounds. It is unlikely that the DRR provides a bulwark against such abuses.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><strong>III        Conclusion</strong></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">On examining the DRR it appears that there is no good reason for singling out religious reasons for a particular restraint and limiting discourse to secular reasons. The grounds offered for doing so, the golden rule, the epistemic accessibility of religious premises, the dangers of religion and the potential for religious wars all apply with equal force to secular beliefs. Hence, the restriction appears arbitrary. Moreover, as applied, the DRR is often incoherent and if applied consistently would render most substantive coercive laws unjustified. The current practice of equating secularism with neutrality is flawed.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">As Carter eloquently puts it,<a href="#_ftn22">[103]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">What is needed is not a requirement that the religiously devout choose a form of dialogue that liberalism accepts, but that liberalism develop a politics that accepts whatever form of dialogue a member of the public offers. Epistemic diversity, like diversity of other kinds, should be cherished, not ignored, and certainly not abolished. What is needed, then, is a willingness to <em>listen, </em>not because the speaker has <em>the right voice </em>but because the speaker has <em>the right to speak. </em>Moreover, the willingness to listen must hold out the possibility that the speaker is saying something worth listening to; to do less is to trivialize the forces that shape the moral convictions of tens of millions of Americans.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>This series was written as a <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/my-supervised-research-paper-grade.....html#more-1966">supervised research paper in pursuit of my LLB</a>. </em></p>
<hr style="text-align: justify;" size="1" />
<p style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><a href="#_ftnref1">[82]</a> Phillip Quinn “Political Liberalisms and Their Exclusions of the Religious” (1995) 69:2 Proceedings and Addresses of the American Philosophical Association 35, 143.<a href="#_ftnref2"><br />
 [83]</a> Robert Audi “Liberal Democracy and the Place of Religion in Politics” in Nicholas Wolterstorff &amp; Robert Audi (eds) <em>Religion in the Public Square: The Place of Religious Convictions in Political Debate</em> (Rowman and Littlefield Publishers Inc, Lanham Md, 1997) 1-66, 31.<a href="#_ftnref3"><br />
 [84]</a> Ibid 31-32.<a href="#_ftnref4"><br />
 [85]</a> Ibid 31.<a href="#_ftnref5"><br />
 [86]</a> Ibid.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref6">[87]</a> Ibid.<a href="#_ftnref7"><br />
 [88]</a> Ibid 31-32.<a href="#_ftnref8"><br />
 [89]</a> Ibid 32.<a href="#_ftnref9"><br />
 [90]</a> Lydia McGrew “<a href="http://www.christendomreview.com/Volume001Issue001/index.html">The Irrational Faith of the Naked Public Square</a>” (2008) 1 The Christendom Review (at 2 October 2009).<a href="#_ftnref10"><br />
 [91]</a> Ibid.<a href="#_ftnref11"><br />
 [92]</a> Audi, above n83, 63.<a href="#_ftnref12"><br />
 [93]</a> I am grateful to Matthew Flannagan for the development of this point.<a href="#_ftnref13"><br />
 [94]</a> Robert Audi <em>Religious Commitment and Secular Reason</em> (Cambridge University Press, New York, 2000) 103.<a href="#_ftnref14"><br />
 [95]</a> Nicholas Wolterstorff “Why we should Reject what Liberalism tells us About Speaking and Acting in Public for Religious Reasons” in Paul Weithman (ed) <em>Religion and Contemporary Liberalism</em> (University of Notre Dame Press, Notre Dame IN, 1997) 167.<a href="#_ftnref15"><br />
 [96]</a> Nicholas Wolterstorff “The Role of Religion in Decision and Discussion of Political Issues” in Nicholas Wolterstorff &amp; Robert Audi (eds) <em>Religion in the Public Square: The Place of Religious Convictions in Political Debate</em> (Rowman and Littlefield Publishers Inc, Lanham Md, 1997) 67-120, 79.<a href="#_ftnref16"><br />
 [97]</a> Quinn, above n82, 39.<a href="#_ftnref17"><br />
 [98]</a> Wolterstorff, above n96, 80.<a href="#_ftnref18"><br />
 [99]</a> Christopher J. Eberle and Terence Cuneo “<a href="http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/religion-politics/">Religion and Political Theory</a>” (2008) <em>Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy</em> (at 9 August 2009).<a href="#_ftnref19"><br />
 [100]</a> Ibid.<a href="#_ftnref20"><br />
 [101]</a> Ibid.<a href="#_ftnref21"><br />
 [102]</a> Ibid.<a href="#_ftnref22"><br />
 [103]</a> Stephen Carter <em>The Culture of Disbelief: How American Law and Politics Trivialise Religious Devotion</em> (Basic Books, New York, 1993) 230.</span></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><strong>RELATED POSTS:</strong><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-i.html"><br />
 Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part II" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-ii.html"><br />
 Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part II</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part III" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iii.html"><br />
 Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part III</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part IV" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iv.html"><br />
 Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part IV</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part V" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-v.html"><br />
 Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part V</a></p>
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		<title>Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part V</title>
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		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 22:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Madeleine</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[God and Morality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jurists]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophy of Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Political Philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Public Policy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion in Public Life]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Rights and Freedoms]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christopher Eberle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Doctrine of Religious Restraint]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Edward Feser]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Freedom of Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jurisprudence]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Law Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Terence Cuneo]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[In my last posts, beginning Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I,  I set out the doctrine of religious restraint and critiqued some of the key arguments in support of it. I looked at the objection that the argument from respect is too thin, that applied consistently it excludes too much and Audi’s response to [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>In my last posts, beginning </em><em><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-i.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I</a></em><em>,  I set out the doctrine of religious restraint and critiqued some of the key arguments in support of it. </em><em>I looked at the objection that the argument from respect is too thin, that applied consistently it excludes too much and</em><em> Audi’s response to this.</em><em> I examined Gerald Gaus’ attempt to salvage the argument from epistemic inaccessibility. In this </em><em>post I will examine and critique Gaus’ idea of open justification in more detail.</em></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>(ii)        Are religious reasons ever subject to open justification?</em></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Gaus might rejoin that commitments to freedom of religion can be defended in terms of open justification. Consider some of the cases that divide society that I listed earlier; at least one side in such debates is mistaken, has made an error in rejecting the purported open justification presented to them. This is entirely possible. It could also be true of Qutb; perhaps he mistakenly rejected a premise that, given other things he believes, he should have embraced.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">While this rejoinder would avoid the thinness objection, the problem is that it would no longer be clear or obvious, in the absence of substantive argument, that any viewpoint could be openly justified. Neither side in the above debates is likely to concede its position as the one in error. Cuneo and Eberle note the problem;<a href="#_ftn1">[66]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">Were we to ask Qutb whether he would have reasons to support laws that protect a robust right to religious freedom if he were adequately informed and reasonable, surely he would say: no. Moreover, he would claim that his compatriots would reject the liberal protection of such a right if <em>they</em> were adequately informed about the divine authorship of the Quran and the proper rules of its interpretation. While Qutb&#8217;s say-so doesn&#8217;t settle the issue of who would believe what in improved conditions, liberal critics maintain that his response indicates just how complicated the issue under consideration is. Among other things, to establish that Qutb is wrong it seems that one would have to deny the truth of various theological claims on which Qutb relies when he determines that he would reject the right to religious freedom were he adequately informed and reasonable. That would require advocates of the standard view to take a stand on contested religious issues. However, liberal critics point out that defenders of the standard view have been wary of explicitly denying the truth of religious claims, especially those found within the major theistic religions.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Gaus’ case for open justification can only succeed if one makes certain assumptions as to the merits of substantive contentions about morality, philosophy of religion, the truth or falsity of various religious doctrines and questions of meta-ethics. However, such contentions are controversial.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">An additional problem is that open justification commits one to the DRR only if one assumes that religious reasons can never be openly justified. Recall that Audi’s definition of a religious reason is one that possesses “normative force, that is, its status as a prima facie justificatory element, does not (evidentially) depend on the existence of God.” This suggests that proponents of the DRR must assume that belief in God cannot ever be openly justified. I would dispute this.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Philosophers and theologians have offered arguments for God’s existence entailing that the beliefs most rational people already accept commit them to theism.  Richard Swinburne has written several works arguing that Christianity is more probable than not on the public evidence than any alternative.<a href="#_ftn2">[67]</a> Robert Adams has argued that the best account of moral obligation is such that they are the commands of a loving God.<a href="#_ftn3">[68]</a> Alvin Plantinga sketched 26 arguments for God’s existence, which are currently being defended in the literature.<a href="#_ftn4">[69]</a> Blackwell recently published an encyclopaedia containing 11 current arguments used to defend the existence of God.<a href="#_ftn5">[70]</a> <a href="http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/">Edward Feser</a> agrees,<a href="#_ftn6">[71]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">Versions of these arguments were defended by the likes of Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, Duns Scotus, Descartes, Leibniz, Locke, and Newton, and their defense had absolutely nothing to do with ignorance of modern science &#8212; indeed, some of these thinkers were among the founders of modern science &#8212; because the arguments do not ultimately stand or fall with any scientific results in the first place. … Among the contemporary defenders of the arguments are writers like Alvin Plantinga, Richard Swinburne, John J. Haldane, James F. Ross, Richard Taylor, William Lane Craig, David S. Oderberg, David Braine, Barry Miller, Robert Koons, Charles Taliaferro and many others &#8212; analytic philosophers highly respected within the field and applying the most rigorous methods of analysis and argumentation. … anyone familiar with the classical and contemporary literature on philosophical theology [cannot] deny that the arguments for the theistic worldview mentioned above are every bit as defensible today as any other philosophical argument.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Just as there are numerous secular arguments, each defended by intelligent and capable scholars, held to be sound by their proponents even if rejected by their opponents, so too are there arguments for the existence of God that meet these criteria. In light of this it seems arbitrary to simply assume that religious arguments cannot meet the standard of public justification. Critics can argue the merits of these arguments and claim that only secular arguments can succeed but this will not give proponents of religious reasons a real reason for accepting such claims. Religious believers hold quite different assessments on the cogency of these arguments. Therefore, the demand of open justification does not appear to be a sufficient reason for the<em> </em>restriction of religious reasons but not others.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>(iii)       Are secular reasons for coercive laws subject to open justification?</em><br />
 Gaus contends that religious reasons cannot be openly justified and that secular beliefs can. Many thinkers have argued that secular perspectives cannot justify the core commitments of a liberal democracy. Nihilist thinkers have argued that secular naturalistic views of the world entail that all moral claims are false.<a href="#_ftn7">[72]</a> Stephen Layman<a href="#_ftn8">[73]</a> and George Mavrodes<a href="#_ftn9">[74]</a> have argued that a secular view renders belief in morality irrational. Using a Kantian line, John Hare has argued that atheism makes the moral life rationally unstable.<a href="#_ftn10">[75]</a> Mark De Linville argues that atheism, when combined with evolutionary theory, provides good reason for thinking our moral beliefs are unreliable.<a href="#_ftn11">[76]</a> Alvin Plantinga has articulated the case for the conclusion that evolution, when combined with atheism, provides a reason for being sceptical about everything we believe (public policy would be no exception).<a href="#_ftn12">[77]</a> Michael Perry and Wolterstorff claim that human beings possessing inherent rights (a fundamental commitment of liberal democracy) cannot be adequately defended on secular grounds and is only defensible if one assumes religious doctrines.<a href="#_ftn13">[78]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">As with many secular arguments, religious justifications for coercive policies have been advocated by intelligent and capable scholars, held to be sound by their proponents even if they are rejected by their opponents. It would be arbitrary to simply assume that secular arguments meet the criteria of open justification and that religious ones do not.  Cuneo and Eberle note the problem;<a href="#_ftn14">[79]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">Liberal critics maintain that we are simply not in good epistemic position to judge the reasons an agent would have to support laws that protect basic liberal commitments were he better informed and more reasonable. More exactly, liberal critics maintain that we are not in a good epistemic position to determine whether a secular agent who is reasonable and better informed would endorse or reject the type of theistic commitments that philosophers such as Wolterstorff claim justify the ascription of natural human rights. The problem is that we don&#8217;t really have any idea how radically a person would change his views were he to occupy these conditions. The main, and still unresolved, question for this version of the standard view, then, is whether there is some coherent and non-arbitrary construal of the relevant counterfactual conditions that is strong enough to prohibit exclusive reliance on religious reasons but weak enough to allow for the justification of basic liberal commitments.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Given the divide between intelligent and capable people over various arguments for and against particular coercive policies it is not prima facie evident that any of these arguments can meet the standard of open justification. Moreover, if an argument could, there appears to be no reason to assume that it could not be a religious one. Now Gaus could examine all currently unsettled policy disputes in society and defend the ones he agrees with and attack the others but the inevitable result will be that many who do not share Gaus’ position will likely be unconvinced. If this is the outcome, there seems no reason why those who do not agree should accept the DRR.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Feser suggests that this arbitrary singling-out of religious reasons for restraint with little or no basis seems to be based more on ignorance and bigotry than reason,<a href="#_ftn15">[80]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">The problem, in the view of many liberals, is that religious considerations are matters of faith, where &#8220;faith&#8221; connotes in their minds a kind of groundless commitment, a will to believe that for which there is no objective evidence. Opinions on matters of public policy, they would say, can only appropriately be arrived at via methods of argument assessable by all members of the political community, not by reference to the idiosyncratic and subjective feelings of a minority.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">If religious arguments were in general really like this, then I would agree with the liberal that they ought to be kept out of the public square. But in fact this liberal depiction of religion is a ludicrous caricature, and manifests just the sort of ignorance and bigotry of which liberals frequently accuse others.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Jeremy Waldron makes a similar point,<a href="#_ftn16">[81]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">Secular theorists often assume that they know what a religious argument is like: they present it as a crude prescription from God, backed up with threat of hellfire, derived from general or particular revelation, and they contrast it with the elegant complexity of a philosophical argument by Rawls (say) or Dworkin. With this image in mind, they think it obvious that religious argument should be excluded from public life, … But those who have bothered to make themselves familiar with existing religious-based arguments in modern political theory know that this is mostly a travesty;</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">A common theme in the arguments from respect, despite both possessing the features considered relevant, is the asymmetry between religious reasons and secular reasons. On the golden rule argument, Audi privileges secular reasons over religious reasons even though secular reasons were potentially subject to the same charges of being false and burdensome. Similarly with the argument from epistemic inaccessibility, reasonable people are able to reject both secular and religious reasons in a pluralistic society yet Audi and Rawls use this fact to exclude the latter and not the former. Likewise, with open justification, prima facie, there is no reason to accept that religious beliefs cannot be openly justified whilst secular beliefs can. Nor is there a prima facie reason for assuming that liberal commitments can be openly justified on secular grounds. In both cases intelligent and capable scholars have advanced arguments from premises which they believe others are committed to holding. Further in both cases the cogency of these arguments can be reasonably disputed.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>In my next post, <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/12/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-vi.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part VI</a>,</em><em> I will look at the dangers of religion as a justification for its asymmetrical treatment within the DRR and conclude my argument.</em></p>
<hr style="text-align: justify;" size="1" />
<p style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><a href="#_ftnref1">[66]</a> </span><span style="font-size: x-small;">Christopher J. Eberle and Terence Cuneo “Religion and Political Theory” (2008) <a onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview(&#039;/outbound/article/plato.stanford.edu&#039;);" href="http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/religion-politics/">Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy</a> (at 9 August 2009).</span><span style="font-size: x-small;"><br />
 </span><span style="font-size: x-small;"><a href="#_ftnref2">[67]</a> Richard Swinburne <em>The Coherence of Theism</em> (Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1977); <em>The Existence of God</em> (Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1979); <em>Faith and Reason</em> (Clarendon Press, Oxford, 2005); <em>Responsibility and Atonement</em> (Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1989); <em>Revelation</em> (Clarendon Press, Oxford, 2007); <em>The Christian God</em> (Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1994); <em>Providence and The Problem of Evil</em> (Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1998).<a href="#_ftnref3"><br />
 [68]</a> Robert Adams <em>Finite and Infinite Goods</em> (Oxford University Press, New York, 1999); “Divine Command Meta-Ethics Modified Again” (1979) 7:1 Journal of Religious Ethics 66; “Moral Arguments for Theistic Belief” in Robert Adams (ed) <em>The Virtue of Faith and Other Essays in Philosophical</em> <em>Theology</em> (Oxford University Press, New York, 1987) 144; “Divine Commands and the Social Nature of Obligation” (1987) 4 <em>Faith and Philosophy</em> 262.<br />
 [69] Alvin Plantinga “Appendix: Two Dozen (or so) Theistic Arguments”<strong> </strong>in Deane-Peter Baker (ed)<em> Alvin Plantinga</em><br />
 [70] JP Moreland and William Lane Craig <em>Blackwell Companion to Natural Theology </em>(Blackwell Publishing, Malden  MA, 2009).<a href="#_ftnref6"><br />
 [71]</a> Edward Feser “How to Mix Religion and Politics” (20056) TCSDaily (at 6 October 2009).<a href="#_ftnref7"><br />
 [72]</a> Prominent examples are: JL Mackie <em>Ethics: Inventing Right and Wrong</em> (Penguin, Harmondsworth, 1977); Michael Ruse “Evolutionary Theory and Christian Ethics” in Michael Ruse (eds) <em>The Darwinian Paradigm </em>(Routledge, London, 1989) 251-273.<a href="#_ftnref8"><br />
 [73]</a> C Stephen Layman “God and the Moral Order” (2002) 19:3 Faith and Philosophy 304; “God and the Moral Order: Replies and Objections” (2006) 32:2 Faith and Philosophy 209.<a href="#_ftnref9"><br />
 [74]</a> George Mavrodes “Religion and the Queerness of Morality” in Robert Audi and William Wrainwright (eds) <em>Rationality, Religious Belief and Moral Commitment</em> (Cornell University Press, Ithaca, 1986) 213-226.<a href="#_ftnref10"><br />
 [75]</a> John Hare <em>The Moral Gap</em> (Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1996); “Naturalism and Morality” in JP Moreland and William Lane Craig (eds) <em>Naturalism: A Critical Appraisal</em> (Routledge, London, 2000) 189-211; “Kant and the Rational Instability of Atheism” in Andrew Dole and Andrew Chignell (eds) <em>The Ethics of Belief</em> (Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 2005).<a href="#_ftnref11"><br />
 [76]</a> Mark D Linville “The Moral Argument” in JP Moreland and William Lane Craig (eds) <em>Blackwell </em><em>Companion to </em><em>Natural Theology </em>(Blackwell Publishing, Malden MA, 2009) 391 449.<a href="#_ftnref12"><br />
 [77]</a> Alvin Plantinga <em>Warrant and Proper Function</em> (Oxford University, New York, 1993) 216-239; “The Evolutionary Argument against Naturalism” and “Replies to Beilby and his Cohorts” in James K Beilby (ed) <em><a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=p40tc_T7-rMC">Naturalism Defeated? Essays on Plantinga&#8217;s Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism</a></em> (Cornell University Press, New York, 2002) 1-15 &amp; 204-277; “Naturalism vs Evolution: A Religion Science Conflict” in Paul Draper (ed) <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/debates/great-debate.html"><em>God or Blind Nature? Philosophers Debate the Evidence</em></a> (at 3 September 2009).<a href="#_ftnref13"><br />
 [78]</a> Nicholas Wolterstorff <em>Justice Rights and Wrongs</em> (Princeton University Press, Princeton NJ, 2008); Michael Perry <em>Toward a Theory of Human Rights: Religion, Law, Courts</em> (Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 2006).<a href="#_ftnref14"><br />
 [79]</a> Eberle and Cuneo, above n 65.<a href="#_ftnref15"><br />
 [80]</a> Feser, above n 71.<a href="#_ftnref16"><br />
 [81]</a> Jeremy Waldron <em>God, Locke, and Equality: Christian Foundations of John Locke&#8217;s Political Thought</em> (Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 2002) 20. Gaus appears to agree; in his book review of Eberle’s work on the subject he writes, “At the outset, however, let me stress that Eberle has written a very good book indeed. It is manifest that he has thought much harder and deeper about justificatory liberalism than justificatory liberals have thought about religious justification and belief. His analysis of religious epistemology and mysticism (ch. <img src='http://www.mandm.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> clearly demonstrates the extent to which many liberals have attacked caricatures of religious justification. After Eberle’s book, secular liberals must be much more careful in their claims about religious beliefs and their justifications.” Gerald Gaus “<em><a href="http://ndpr.nd.edu/news/23309/?id=1214">Religious Convictions in Liberal Politics</a>”</em> (2003) Notre Dame Philosophical Reviews (at 13 September 2009) (book review).</span><span style="font-size: x-small;"> (Cambridge University Press, New   York, 2007) 203-229.</span></p>
<p><strong>RELATED POSTS:</strong><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-i.html"><br />
 Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part II" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-ii.html"><br />
 </a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-ii.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part II</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part III" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iii.html"><br />
 </a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iii.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part III</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part IV" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iv.html"><br />
 </a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iv.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part IV</a><br />
 <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-v.html"></a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/12/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-vi.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part VI</a></p>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Madeleine</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[God and Morality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jurists]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophy of Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Political Philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Public Policy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion in Public Life]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Rights and Freedoms]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christopher Eberle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Doctrine of Religious Restraint]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Freedom of Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gerald Gaus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Glenn Peoples]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jurisprudence]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Law Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Robert Audi]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Terence Cuneo]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[In my last posts, beginning Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I,  I set out the doctrine of religious restraint and critiqued some of the key arguments in support of it. I looked at the objection that the argument from respect is too thin, that applied consistently it excludes too much and Audi’s response to [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>In my last posts, beginning </em><em><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-i.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I</a></em><em>,  I set out the doctrine of religious restraint and critiqued some of the key arguments in support of it. </em><em>I looked at the objection that the argument from respect is too thin, that applied consistently it excludes too much and</em><em> Audi’s response to this.</em><em> In this post I will look at Gerald Gaus’ attempt to salvage the argument from epistemic inaccessibility.</em></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>(d)        Gaus’ attempt to salvage the argument from epistemic inaccessibility</em></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">I have argued that the argument from respect is subject to two objections, incoherence and thinness. One should not appeal to religious reasons to justify coercive legislation because people can reasonably reject religious reasons; as religious reasons are not shared by all reasonable people there is a duty to not appeal to them.  However, if this is true then both the DRR in its “public reason” form, as exemplified by Rawls, and in its more secularist form, as exemplified by Audi, should also be rejected. Reasonable people do not agree on secular moral theory nor do they agree on the principles of public reason.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">In addition to being incoherent the DRR excludes far too much. It leaves us with content that is insufficiently thin to justify substantive legislative questions. I cited Gaus above who agreed that “little, if anything, is the object of consensus among reasonable people.”</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">In response to the thinness objection Gaus introduced the idea of “open justification.”<a href="#_ftn1">[55]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">Open justification … takes a person’s current system of beliefs and asks, first, whether given this system that person is committed to accepting some new piece of information, and, second, whether that person is then committed to revising his or her system of beliefs in the light of that new information.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">According to Gaus, what respect requires is not that laws be justified to all reasonable people in such a way that those reasonable people can be expected to accept the justification, but rather “a coercive law is justified to an agent only if, were he reasonable and adequately informed, then he would have a sufficient reason from his <em>own perspective</em> to support it.”<a href="#_ftn2">[56]</a> [<em>Emphasis added</em>]</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Peoples explains,<a href="#_ftn3">[57]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">[One] might hold to all kinds of prejudices and false beliefs that would lead him to reject a policy, and yet we might still be justified in advocating that this policy be imposed on him because if he were a bit more reasonable and open to new information, he would have a reason to endorse it. Stated differently, a person can be openly justified in accepting a policy, and yet consciously reject that policy because he doesn’t realise that if he only knew a bit more, understood the situation a little better, or was more open minded, he would have reasons to accept the policy.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Gaus prefers open justification over two other forms he identifies as “closed justification” and “strong externalism.” Gaus describes closed justification as being justified internally from the viewpoints that person currently holds.<a href="#_ftn4">[58]</a> He defines strong externalism as being justified from a viewpoint where one was adequately informed and had no mistaken beliefs. Gaus suggests that respecting others means that one is able to openly justify the policies one supports to other reasonable people in society. He does not require that persuasion is achieved or that a person’s current comprehensive viewpoint endorses the policy in question. Rather he holds that one must be able show the person that his or her current viewpoint provides grounds or reasons for believing things they currently do not. Further, that if they did accept these other things then they would have reasons for embracing the coercive policy being advocated.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Gaus’ opinion does appear to improve on that of Rawls. He is not alone in suggesting this. Audi has offered a solution to the thinness problem along the lines Gaus suggests.<a href="#_ftn5">[59]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">Two people who disagree on the justice of allowing a Nazi group to present its case may share intuitions about freed speech in general and be divided by, for instance, paranoia about Nazis, which one party has and the other does not. When this happens, there is often a possible route from the shared intuitions about the justice of protecting freedom of expression to agreement on the case in hand. It appears, moreover, that among rational civilized people, establishing agreement on what factual information is relevant and on what the relevant facts are tends to bring intuitions closer together.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Often when two people disagree there will be a set of moral intuitions<a href="#_ftn6">[60]</a> on which they do agree. The disagreement stems from other facts brought about by certain biases. If people can be shown that they are mistaken on these facts, it is possible that the biases can be corrected and agreement might occur. Audi suggests that something like open justification will decrease the amount of disagreement between rational people on at least some issues of justice.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">As Audi’s example is simply that of a dispute between two people I am not sure that it escapes the thinness objection. It is one thing for a person to openly justify his or her position to one other but, according to Gaus, it is wrong to advocate a coercive law unless one can provide open justification to <em>all</em> reasonable people. Further, in the context of a defence of the DRR, and in the face of a charge of unjust asymmetry, Gaus must also contend both that religious reasons can never achieve open justification in this manner and that secular reasons can.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>(i)         Open justification and the thinness objection</em><br />
 According to Gaus, the provision of open justification for a policy, to another person who rejects that policy, should proceed in two stages. First, one should assess whether the other person’s viewpoint commits that person to “accepting some new piece of information”. If it does, then one should assess whether the person is then “committed to revising his or her system of beliefs in the light of that new information.” Consequently, a person is only permitted to advocate a position if he or she can show that the position follows from premises that all reasonable people in society currently accept and according to a type of inference that all reasonable people recognise as valid.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">An immediate problem arises, namely that few, if any, laws are justified by arguments that meet this standard (probably because few arguments on any substantive topic meet this standard). Marilyn McCord Adams notes, “the defence of any well-formulated philosophical position will eventually involve premises which are fundamentally controversial and so unable to command the assent of all reasonable persons.”<a href="#_ftn7">[61]</a> Consider the list of controversial issues I gave earlier: welfare, abortion, state funding of social projects, euthanasia, pornography, genetic modification of foods, climate change, capital punishment, Maori seats and so on. Do any of the proponents on either side of these debates offer arguments that ultimately appeal to premises that all rational people accept, without ever appealing to some premise, that is either drawn from or depends for its plausibility on, a comprehensive perspective that only some reasonable people accept? Could anyone advance such a justification? I doubt it.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">This doubt stems from the fact that in such ethical debates often the very foundations of the subject are a matter of dispute. Nihilists deny moral claims are defensible at all. Non-nihilists disagree fundamentally over whether moral language is descriptive, prescriptive, both or merely an expression of emotion. There is disagreement over how moral knowledge is gained, what the fundamental criteria for right actions are and so on. Given this, almost any moral premise will be subject to dispute by some reasonable people.<a href="#_ftn8">[62]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Eberle and Cuneo raise a related point by citing the example of Islamic intellectual, Sayyid Qutb.<a href="#_ftn9">[63]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">While in prison, Qutb wrote an intelligent, informed, and morally serious commentary on the Koran in which he laid the ills of modern society at the feet of Christianity and liberal democracy. The only way to extricate ourselves from the problems spawned by liberal democracy, Qutb argued, is to implement shariah or Islamic legal code, which implies that the state should not protect a robust right to religious freedom. In short, Qutb articulates what is, from his point of view, a compelling theological rationale against any law that authorizes the state to protect a robust right to religious freedom.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">People like Qutb are not alone in society. Whatever we might think of the conclusions they draw, Islamic intellectuals appear to be educated, rational and morally serious people. Qutb rejects “a robust right to religious freedom” and liberal democracy itself. A coercive law that protects a robust right to freedom of religion and any of the other substantive commitments of a liberal democracy is only defensible if secularists can provide a valid argument for these commitments, from premises that Qutb accepts, to the conclusion that such commitments are correct. It is doubtful that secularists have done this or even that they would be able to.<a href="#_ftn10">[64]</a> Cuneo and Eberle note the conclusion.<a href="#_ftn11">[65]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">If respect for persons requires that each coercive law be justified to those reasonable persons subject to that law, and if a person such as Qutb were a citizen of a liberal democracy, then the argument from respect implies that laws that protect the right to religious freedom are morally illegitimate, as they lack moral justification—at least for agents such as Qutb.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>In my next post, <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-v.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part V</a></em><em>, I will examine and critique Gaus&#8217;s idea of open justification in more detail.</em></p>
<hr style="text-align: justify;" size="1" />
<p style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><a href="#_ftnref1">[55]</a> Gerald Gaus <em>Justificatory Liberalism: An Essay on Epistemology and Political Theor</em>y (Oxford University Press, New York, 1996) 32.<a href="#_ftnref2"><br />
 [56]</a> </span><span style="font-size: x-small;">Christopher J. Eberle and Terence Cuneo “Religion and Political Theory” (2008) <a href="http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/religion-politics/">Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy</a> (at 9 August 2009).</span><span style="font-size: x-small;"><br />
 <a href="#_ftnref3">[57]</a> Glenn Peoples “Religion in the Public Square: Is it Justified?” (speech delivered at Thinking Matters, Laidlaw College, 12 May 2009, 14; text obtained via Email from Glenn Peoples to Madeleine Flannagan, 12 October 2009.<a href="#_ftnref4"><br />
 [58]</a> Gaus, above n 54, 36.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref5">[59]</a> Robert Audi “Liberal Democracy and the Place of Religion in Politics” in Nicholas Wolterstorff &amp; Robert Audi (eds) <em>Religion in the Public Square: The Place of Religious Convictions in Political Debate</em> (Rowman and Littlefield Publishers Inc, Lanham Md, 1997) 1-66, 132-133.<br />
 [60] Audi is a moral intuitionist. He believes people can discern basic moral truths through moral intuition; hence, for Audi, agreement on intuitions means agreement on basic moral principles.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref7">[61]</a> Marilyn McCord Adams <em>Horrendous Evils and the Goodness of God</em> (Cornell University Press, Ithaca NY, 1999) 180.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref8">[62]</a> I am grateful to Matthew Flannagan for the development of this point.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref9">[63]</a> Eberle and Cuneo, above n 55.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref10">[64]</a> For a critical discussion on the standard arguments for religious freedom and the controversial premises on which they rest see, Philip Quinn “Religion and Politics” in William E Mann (ed) <a href="http://www.blackwellreference.com/public/book?id=g9780631221296_9780631221296"><em>The Blackwell Guide to the Philosophy of Religion</em></a> (Blackwell Publishing, Blackwell Reference Online 2004) (at 7 October 2009).<a href="#_ftnref11"><br />
 [65]</a> Eberle and Cuneo, above n 55.</span></p>
<p><strong>RELATED POSTS:</strong><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-i.html"><br />
 Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part II" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-ii.html"><br />
 </a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-ii.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part II</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part III" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iii.html"><br />
 </a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iii.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part III</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part IV" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iv.html"><br />
 </a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iv.html"></a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-v.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part V</a><br />
 <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/12/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-vi.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part VI</a></p>
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		<title>Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part III</title>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 05:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Madeleine</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[God and Morality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jurists]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophy of Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Political Philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Public Policy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion in Public Life]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Rights and Freedoms]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christopher Eberle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Doctrine of Religious Restraint]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Freedom of Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gerald Gaus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Glenn Peoples]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Rawls]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jurisprudence]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Law Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Nicholas Wolterstorff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philip Quinn]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Robert Audi]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=1985</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In my last posts, beginning Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I, I set out the doctrine of religious restraint and touched on some criticisms of it. I looked at and critiqued some of the key arguments in support of the doctrine of religious restraint. In this post I will look at the objection that [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>In my last posts, beginning </em><em><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-i.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I</a></em><em><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part II" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-ii.html"></a></em><em>, I set out the doctrine of religious restraint and touched on some criticisms of it. I looked at and critiqued some of the key arguments in support of the doctrine of religious restraint. </em><em>In this post I will look at the objection that the argument from respect is too thin, that applied consistently it excludes too much. I will conclude by looking at</em><em> Audi’s response to this.</em></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>(b)        Thinness</em></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">A closely related problem is that if it is applied consistently the argument from respect excludes too much. If justification is limited to principles that no reasonable person can reasonably be expected to reject then little will be able to be justified. Glenn Peoples notes the problem;<a href="#_ftn1">[31]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">Given this view of justification, you can only endorse a policy if it is such that it can be endorsed in light of the <em>actual</em> beliefs and goals held by the KKK, the Catholic Church and the humanist rationalist society.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Wolterstorff observes that “in our actual societies, anyone who embraced this position would simply refrain from advocating any position whatsoever on any issue of importance to society.”[32] Quinn agrees, “as Wolterstorff notes, he knows of no law or policy that has come up for discussion in the United Sates in recent years that has had the support of a consensus of all the rational adult citizens.”<a href="#_ftn3">[33]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Gerald Gaus, who is otherwise sympathetic to the DRR, also agrees; he notes that, given Rawls’s requirement for consensus, public reason “loses its character as a liberal doctrine, for little, if anything, is the object of consensus among reasonable people.”<a href="#_ftn4">[34]</a> Kent Greenawalt argues that public reason is incapable of grounding policy on most contentious political issues.<a href="#_ftn5">[35]</a> Peter de Marneffe concurs.<a href="#_ftn6">[36]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Wolterstorff contends that public reason must be supplemented by ideas drawn from comprehensive doctrines or it will not be able to function as an adequate base for justifying many substantive policies. To make his point, Wolterstorff cites the welfare debate. Advocates for the varying perspectives appeal to ‘freedom’ and ‘equality’ but mean different things by these terms; they prioritise the relevant rights differently, they disagree as to how such rights should be weighed against social utility. It is unlikely that public reason, common sense and uncontroversial science can justify welfare legislation to a standard that all can reasonably accept. <a href="#_ftn7">[37]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Wolterstorff makes similar points over the fundamental premise in the abortion debate; equal protection has radically different meanings depending on how one interprets public reason’s answer to the question, ‘is the fetus a person or not?’<a href="#_ftn8">[38]</a> Eberle,<a href="#_ftn9">[39]</a> Quinn<a href="#_ftn10">[40]</a> and Jean Hampton<a href="#_ftn11">[41]</a> agree that public reason cannot settle the question as to whether a fetus is a person yet Rawls argues that public reason <em>can</em> settle the abortion debate (case in point: reasonable people disagree over the answers public reason can give). <a href="#_ftn12">[42]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Rawls’ version of the argument from respect is not the only one that faces these problems; similar issues arise with other conceptions of the DRR. Any attempt to ground the DRR in the notion that coercive legislation cannot be justified unless the reasons advanced can be grounded in the reasonably-held principles and beliefs shared by all people will face the same problem. This is evident when one examines other versions of the DRR which do not employ Rawls’ idea of public reason.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Rawls employs public reason to place a restraint on all comprehensive viewpoints, whether religious or secular. Robert Audi’s position is less restrictive. Audi applies the restraint primarily to religious reasons. He proposes a principle of “secular rationale”, a principle of “secular motivation” and something he calls “theo-ethical equilibrium.”<a href="#_ftn13">[43]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">His secular rationale principle claims that “one should not advocate or support any law or public policy that restricts human conduct unless one has, and is willing to offer, adequate secular reason for this advocacy or support.”<a href="#_ftn14">[44]</a> His principle of secular motivation goes further; “one should not advocate or promote any legal or public policy restrictions on human conduct unless one not only has and is willing to offer, but is also motivated by, adequate secular reason, where this reason (or set of reasons) is motivationally sufficient for the conduct in question.”<a href="#_ftn15">[45]</a> Theo-ethical equilibrium is “a rational integration between religious deliverances and insights and, on the other hand, secular ethical considerations … a mature, conscientious theist who cannot reach it [theo-ethical equilibrium] should be reluctant or unwilling to support coercive laws or public policies on a religious basis that cannot be placed in that equilibrium.”<a href="#_ftn16">[46]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Audi argues that “an adequate reason for a law or policy is a proposition whose truth is sufficient to justify it.”<a href="#_ftn17">[47]</a> He places the restraint on religious reasons;<a href="#_ftn18">[48]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">A secular reason is, roughly, one whose normative force, that is, its status as a prima facie justificatory element, does not (evidentially) depend on the existence of God (for example, through appeals to divine command) or on theological considerations (such as interpretations of a sacred text), or on the pronouncements of a person or institution qua religious authority.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Given that comprehensive secular perspectives are not excluded by this version of the DRR, it appears that Audi’s conception can escape the problem of thinness that Rawls’ public reason faces. Comprehensive secular viewpoints should provide people with a thicker perspective, broad enough to justify many substantive policies.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">However, an examination of the reasons Audi advances in favour of his version of the DRR will reveal this contention to be mistaken. By broadening public reason to adequate secular reason Audi’s position is thicker than Rawls’ but its asymmetrical treatment of religious and secular views puts it back in the path of the charges of incoherence and thinness. I will elaborate.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Like Rawls, Audi offers a version of the argument from respect. He states “as advocates for laws and public policies, then, and especially for those that are coercive, virtuous citizens will seek grounds of a kind that <em>any rational adult citizen can endorse</em> as sufficient for the purpose”<a href="#_ftn19">[49]</a> [<em>Emphasis added</em>] In another article, he argues that<a href="#_ftn19">[50]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">adherence to the principle of secular rationale helps to ensure that, in determining the scope of freedom in a society, the decisive principles and considerations can be shared by people of differing religious views, or even no religious convictions at all.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Audi assumes that secular views are accepted by all whereas not everyone accepts the truth of religious premises. This is a big assumption. In fact some secular views are not accepted by all; religious people can and do reasonably reject secular views. This renders Audi’s position incoherent as adherence to Audi’s position, by Audi’s position, requires us to reject it. Quinn explains, <a href="#_ftn21">[51]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">If the fact that religious reasons cannot be shared by all in a religiously pluralistic society suffices to warrant any exclusion of religious reasons for advocating or supporting restrictive laws or policies, then much else ought in fairness also to be excluded on the same grounds. For example, justification of a restrictive law or policy by an appeal to its maximization of utility should be excluded because many citizens reasonably reject utilitarianism. Indeed, it would seem that the appeal to any comprehensive ethical theory, including all known secular ethical theories, should be disallowed on the grounds that every such theory can be reasonably rejected by some citizens of a pluralistic democracy. And if justification of restrictive laws or policies can be conducted only in terms of moral considerations no citizen of a pluralistic democracy can reasonably reject, then in a pluralistic democracy such as ours very few restrictive laws or policies can be morally justified, a conclusion that would, I suspect, be welcomed only by anarchists.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">In addition, Audi’s position imposes a burden on religion that is not imposed on secularism despite secularism possessing the same features used to exclude religion. In the absence of some other factor, specific to religion and not applicable to secularism, the asymmetry is arbitrary. To escape this problem Audi would have to reject not only religious reasons but all reasons that are not “shared by people of differing religious views, or even no religious convictions at all.” However, if he takes this line, his position is rendered too thin and fares no better than Rawls.’</p>
<h5 style="text-align: justify;">(c)        Audi’s defence</h5>
<p style="text-align: justify;">In a defence of his position against this line of critique, Robert Audi questions if the DRR is as thin as critics maintain, <a href="#_ftn22">[52]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">I would think that if we stick to principles of justice, which form only a small part of a comprehensive view, and if we do not take agreement to imply unanimity as opposed to consensus, there is a better chance of agreement than on the whole of such a larger view. Perhaps the chance is still not good, … But is there not a strong consensus, at least among citizens of democratic societies, that justice requires not only equal protection of the laws but also laws that protect liberty, including political and religious liberty and freedom of speech, up to a certain level? There are of course disagreements on matters of detail&#8230;</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">While it is true that most people hold to some conception of justice and equality, and affirm the right to exercise certain liberties, the details of their understanding of these norms are not as minor as Audi suggests. As I alluded to earlier, people can mean quite different things by these terms and can prioritise and weigh their importance quite differently. Closer examination of these “matters of detail” reveals substantive lack of consensus.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Equal protection requires agreement over the question as to whom it applies. In Nazi Germany everyone was owed equal protection by the state; however, certain classes of people were deemed sub-human. Likewise with justifications offered for the new-world slavery as practised in the British Empire and antebellum United States, slaves did not qualify; similarly, with the abortion debate over the status of the fetus. Then there is the extent and nature of the protection to consider. Should the state regulate how many times a week one engages in exercise and eats fruit and vegetables on the grounds of protecting the health of its people or should it simply protect people from aggressors? Is Audi suggesting that simply agreeing that such protection should apply equally to all is sufficient to make his case and what form that should take is mere detail? Unless supplemented by definitions as to its recipients, nature and scope the term “equal protection before the law” is a vague statement lacking substantive content.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The liberties Audi lists are also fraught with difficulty in interpretation as reasonable people do not agree on them.  Are they negative or does the state have a duty to provide or subsidise them? The substantive content and meaning of the terms ‘freedom’ and ‘liberty’ is disputed depending on whether one is talking to a libertarian or a socialist. Then there are the problems specific to each liberty.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Consider freedom of religion. Steven Smith has argued that, strictly speaking, it is inaccurate to claim there is such a thing as a right to freedom religion. Instead there exists a spectrum of views about religious tolerance. Diverse writers, such as Aquinas, Cromwell, Locke and Mill each agreed that some religious dissent should be tolerated by the state but disagreed both on the limits and on which religions should be tolerated in society. Smith concluded that as no state tolerates all religious sects and very few tolerate none, the idea of a concept of freedom of religion supported by some and opposed by others is illusory. Which account of religious tolerance is correct depends on comprehensive views; adjudication between different understandings of religious tolerance is not possible without appealing to some comprehensive view. Settling these matters from something like public reason or adequate secular reason seems extremely difficult.<a href="#_ftn23">[53]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Does freedom of speech entail prior restraint or does it stop at the initiation of force? What about content and the manner of expression? How should we define speech? Does it include a right to engage in hate, racist, blasphemous, defamatory or sexist speech? Is it acceptable to wear Nazi emblems or deny the holocaust?</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Reasonable people disagree over more than just the details; they disagree over the terms, the nature, the extent and hold to a different range of finite cases. People use and understand the relevant terms in very different ways. Audi misconstrues the situation when he argues there is unanimity in society on fundamental principles of justice. The thinness objection stands.<span style="font-size: small;"><a href="#_ftnref1">[54]</a></span></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>In my next post, <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iv.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part IV</a></em><em>, I will look at Gerald Gaus&#8217; attempt to salvage the argument from epistemic inaccessibility and will offer some critical analysis of this.</em></p>
<hr style="text-align: justify;" size="1" />
<p style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><a href="#_ftnref1">[31]</a> Glenn Peoples <em>Religion in the Public Square: Liberal Political Philosophy and the Place of Religious Convictions</em><a href="#_ftnref2"><br />
 [32]</a> Nicholas Wolterstorff “The Role of Religion in Decision and Discussion of Political Issues” in Nicholas Wolterstorff &amp; Robert Audi (eds) <em>Religion in the Public Square: The Place of Religious Convictions in Political Debate</em> (Rowman and Littlefield Publishers Inc, Lanham Md, 1997) 67-120, 154.<a href="#_ftnref3"><br />
 [33]</a> Philip Quinn “Religion in the Public Square: The Place of Religious Convictions in Political Debate” (2000) 60:2 <cite>Philosophy and Phenomenological Research</cite> 486, 487 (book review), 488.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref4">[34]</a> Gerald Gaus <em>Justificatory Liberalism: An Essay on Epistemology and Political Theor</em>y (Oxford University Press, New York, 1996) 293.<a href="#_ftnref5"><br />
 [35]</a> Kent Greenawalt <em>Private Consciences and Public Reasons</em> (Oxford University Press, New York, 1995) 141-150.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref6">[36]</a> Peter de Marneffe “Rawls’s Idea of Public Reason” (1994) 75 Pacific Philosophical Quarterly232.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref7">[37]</a> Wolterstorff, above n 32, 103-104.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref8">[38]</a> Ibid 104.<a href="#_ftnref9"><br />
 [39]</a> Christopher Eberle <em>Religious Convictions in Liberal Politics </em>(Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 2002) 217-222.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref10">[40]</a> Phillip Quinn “Political Liberalisms and Their Exclusions of the Religious” (1995) 69:2 Proceedings and Addresses of the American Philosophical Association 35, 37-46.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref11">[41]</a> Jean Hampton “The Common Faith of Liberalism” (1994) 75 Pacific Philosophical Quarterly<em> </em>208.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref12">[42]</a> John Rawls <em>Political Liberalism </em>(Columbia University Press, New York, 1993) 243-244.<a href="#_ftnref13"><br />
 [43]</a> Robert Audi “Liberal Democracy and the Place of Religion in Politics” in Nicholas Wolterstorff &amp; Robert Audi (eds) <em>Religion in the Public Square: The Place of Religious Convictions in Political Debate</em> (Rowman and Littlefield Publishers Inc, Lanham Md, 1997) 1-66, 25-37.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref14">[44]</a> Robert Audi “The Separation of Church and State and the Obligations of Citizenship” (1989) 18 Philosophy and Public Affairs 259, 279.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref15">[45]</a> Ibid 284.<a href="#_ftnref16"><br />
 [46]</a> Audi, above n 43, 21.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref17">[47]</a> Audi, above n 44, 284.<br />
 [48] Ibid 278.<a href="#_ftnref19"><br />
 [49]</a> Audi, above n 43, 17.<a href="#_ftnref20"><br />
 [50]</a> Audi, above n 44, 290.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref21">[51]</a> Quinn, above n 40, 39-40.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref22">[52]</a> Audi, above n 43, 131-132.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref23">[53]</a> Steven Smith <em>Foreordained Failure: The Quest for a Constitutional Principle of Religious Freedom</em> (Oxford University Press, New York, 1995). (PhD Thesis, University  of Otago, 2007) 118.<br />
 </span><span style="font-size: x-small;"><a href="#_ftnref1">[54]</a></span> <span style="font-size: x-small;">Paul Rishworth suggests these examples do not show there is no secular consensus but rather that there is a secular consensus at a high level of abstraction. Supervisor’s feedback from Paul Rishworth to Madeleine Flannagan dated 30 October 2009. This may be the case, however, the thinness objection does not maintain that there is no secular consensus; it maintains that there is no secular consensus thick enough to provide an answer to many substantive public policy questions. For Rishworth’s objection to stand, this higher level of abstraction would have to furnish principles thick enough to answer such questions and the examples above show that it cannot.</span></p>
<p><strong>RELATED POSTS:</strong><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-i.html"><br />
 Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part II" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-ii.html"><br />
 </a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-ii.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part II</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part III" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iii.html"><br />
 </a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iii.html"></a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iv.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part IV</a><br />
 <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-v.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part V</a><br />
 <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/12/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-vi.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part VI</a></p>
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