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	<title>MandM &#187; Philip Quinn</title>
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	<description>Philosophy of Religion, Ethics, Theology and Jurisprudence</description>
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		<title>There&#8217;s Probably No God? Fisking Atheist Billboards</title>
		<link>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/07/theres-probably-no-god-fisking-atheist-billboards.html?utm_source=rss&amp;utm_medium=rss&amp;utm_campaign=theres-probably-no-god-fisking-atheist-billboards</link>
		<comments>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/07/theres-probably-no-god-fisking-atheist-billboards.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 13:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Atheists]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bad Reasoning]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Current Events]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Philosophers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Alvin Plantinga]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christopher Hitchens]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Hare]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NZ Atheist Campaign]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NZARH]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Paul Kurtz]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philip Quinn]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Richard Dawkins]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Robert Adams]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Stephen Layman]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[William Lane Craig]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=3457</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the way back from Bloggers drinks we drove past one of the controversial atheist advertising billboards, put up by NZ Atheist Campaign, The Humanist Society and NZARH, which have appeared around Auckland. This appears to have come on the back of the Richard Dawkins inspired bus advertising that made headlines earlier this year. It [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: justify;">On the way back from Bloggers drinks we drove past one of the controversial atheist advertising billboards, put up by <a href="http://www.nogod.org.nz/2010/07/the-new-billboards/" target="_blank">NZ Atheist Campaign</a>, <a href="http://humanist.org.nz/" target="_blank">The Humanist Society</a> and <a href="http://www.nzarh.org.nz/news.htm#abgu" target="_blank">NZARH</a>, which have appeared around Auckland. This appears to have come on the back of the Richard Dawkins inspired bus advertising that made headlines earlier this year. It is worth fisking them a bit.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Here is a pic of the first one.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Good.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3459" title="Good Without God? Over One Million Kiwis Are." src="http://www.mandm.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Good.jpg" alt="Good Without God? Over One Million Kiwis Are." width="421" height="262" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Here we are told one million kiwis are good without God because the census says so. This, however, is fallacious. What the census shows is not that one million kiwis are good without God, it shows that one million kiwis are good (although this is granting a lot for the sake of argument) without believing in the existence God. But to say one can be good without believing in God is not the same as saying one can be good without God. Many people throughout history have been able to live and breath without believing in the existence of hydrogen and oxygen atoms, it does not follow that they could live without water.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Moreover, it is hard to tell what the point of this sociological fact is anyway. Why does the fact that people do not need to believe in something to do good deeds mean that the belief is false? For centuries people have done good deeds and lived good lives without believing in evolutionary theory or quantum mechanics, should we conclude that these theories are therefore ‘probably false’? Surely these atheists are not suggesting that our beliefs should be based on what is useful or helpful as opposed to what is true or false?</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Perhaps the atheists here mean to convey something else. Some Christian thinkers such as William Lane Craig, Robert Adams, Stephen Layman, Alvin Plantinga, John Hare, Philip Quinn have argued that moral properties such as right and wrong depend on God for their existence. Atheist writers such as Paul Kurtz and Christopher Hitchens retort that this claim is falsified by the existence of morally upright atheists. I suspect something like this is behind the slogan on the billboard, it repeats Hitchens and Kurtz’s retorts as though they said something insightful or clever.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The problem is, as any one familiar with this discussion should know, this retort misses the point (as I pointed out in <a title="Permanent Link to On a Common Equivocation" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/01/on-a-common-equivocation.html"><span style="font-size: small;">On a Common Equivocation</span></a><span style="font-size: small;">)</span>. Craig, Adams, et al are not claiming that one needs to believe in God to be good (a point made several times in the literature and particularly made so many times to Kurtz that it beggars belief that he keeps repeating it) rather their claim is that moral properties, such as right and wrong, depend on God for their existence.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">This is a fairly basic and elementary distinction in the literature. How exactly expressing a common philosophical confusion counts as reason for thinking “there probably is no God” is hard to see.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Let&#8217;s look at the next one.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/created.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3460" title="In the Beginning, Man Created God." src="http://www.mandm.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/created.jpg" alt="In the Beginning, Man Created God." width="420" height="304" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">What is asserted here? That man created God. This, however, is clearly absurd. God is typically defined as an all-powerful, all-knowing, immaterial, necessarily-existent being who created the world. Now if one is going to claim that humans actually created an all-powerful, all-knowing, immaterial, necessarily-existent who created the world, then they are contradicting themselves.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Humans are part of the world and therefore cannot have created the being that created the world &#8211; otherwise humans would have to exist prior to their own existence.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Similarly, one cannot create a necessary being, this would entail it is possible for a necessary being to not exist, in which case it would not be a necessary being. Taken in a straight-forward, literal manner (the way freethinkers are so fond of taking every passage in the Bible) this billboard simply asserts contradictions.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Of course, the authors of this billboard probably do not mean to say humans actually created God, they do not think he exists after all. Their claim is that humans created the idea or concept of God and developed it. This is undoubtedly true. Of course, humans also invented the idea or concept of atoms as well, ancient Greek philosophers came up the basics of this concept millennium ago. This trivial fact tells us nothing about whether or not the idea or concept humans developed actually corresponds to anything in reality. To assume that it tells us something about whether the idea or concept is true or false is a fairly obvious case of the genetic fallacy.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">So the second billboard either asserts a contradiction or it is a clear case of a logical fallacy.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The last one is my favourite.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/allatheists.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3461" title="We are all atheists about most gods. Some of us just go one god further." src="http://www.mandm.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/allatheists.jpg" alt="We are all atheists about most gods. Some of us just go one god further." width="441" height="279" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">I am inclined to think the argument on this sign is invalid. To see why let’s take out the term “God” in the sign and replace it with some other term such as “non-Christian perspective.” When we do this we get: “We all reject most non-Christian perspectives, some of us just reject one more.” This argument has true premises, do we now have, a knock-down argument for Christianity?</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Similarly, an analogous argument form with true premises gives us an argument for nihilism, the total denial of the existence of morality. “We are all nihilists about some conceptions of morality, some of us are just nihilistic about one more.”</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The same argument for also furnishes a refutation of secularism, “we all reject some secular perspectives on reality, some of us just reject one more.” I could go on.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Taking a stand on any issue of philosophical substance, whether by affirming, denying or simply being sceptical of it, is to put oneself in opposition to any number of other people and groups who take a contrary stance. That is life. Such pluralism hardly provides a reason for thinking “there probably is no God” any more than it gives us a reason to doubt any other perspective on the world.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">So what do the atheist billboards do? Well the first one tells us that some atheist groups conflate basic philosophical distinctions and don’t really understand the debate they are contributing to. The second shows us that these groups think contradictions and obvious fallacies are some how savvy and smart. The last shows us that they think that invalid argument forms, forms from which you could infer the denial of anything and everything by substituting one true premise with another, are avant-garde.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">All in all, pretty accurate advertising for these groups.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>Hat tip:</em> <a href="http://manawatu.christian-apologetics.org/good-news-controversial-atheism-campaign-to-hit-billboards/" target="_blank">MCAS</a></p>
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		<title>Contra Mundum: Secularism and Public Life</title>
		<link>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/06/contra-mundum-secularism-and-public-life.html?utm_source=rss&amp;utm_medium=rss&amp;utm_campaign=contra-mundum-secularism-and-public-life</link>
		<comments>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/06/contra-mundum-secularism-and-public-life.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 May 2010 22:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Media]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion and Public Life]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Rights and Freedoms]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christopher Eberle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Contra Mundum]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Doctrine of Religious Restraint]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Investigate Magazine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Michael Tooley]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Nicholas Wolterstorff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philip Quinn]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Richard Rorty]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Robert Audi]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Stephen Carter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Terence Cuneo]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=3127</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Legal scholar Stephen Carter stated,
One good way to end a conversation – or start an argument – is to tell a group of well educated professionals that you hold a political position (preferably a controversial one such as being against abortion or pornography) because it is required by your understanding of God’s will. In the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: justify;">Legal scholar Stephen Carter stated,</p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">One good way to end a conversation – or start an argument – is to tell a group of well educated professionals that you hold a political position (preferably a controversial one such as being against abortion or pornography) because it is required by your understanding of God’s will. In the unlikely event that anyone hangs around to talk with you about it, chances are that you will be challenged on the ground that you are intent on imposing your religious beliefs on other people. And in contemporary political and legal culture, nothing is worse.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Carter puts his finger on an important perspective which is pervasive in contemporary liberal societies. This is the view that citizens of liberal democracies may justly support the implementation of a law only if they reasonably believe themselves to have a plausible <strong><em>secular</em> </strong>justification for that law. Further, they must be willing to appeal to secular justifications alone in political discussion. The upshot of this perspective is that it is perceived to be unjust to support or advocate for laws for theological or religious reasons.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">I will refer to this position as secularism, the commitment to the position that the public square should be secular. The secularisation of political culture is, of course, an implication of accepting this position.  Richard Rorty described it as,</p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">The happy, Jeffersonian compromise that the Enlightenment reached with the religious. This compromise consists in privatizing religion — keeping it out of … “the public square,” making it seem bad taste to bring religion into discussions of public policy.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">My experience as a New Zealand citizen is that secularism is widely held and taken for granted in our culture by media, politicians and popular culture. I also think, perhaps predictably, that secularism of this sort is questionable.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Let me begin by pointing out that several writers have observed that <em>prima facie</em> there is something unfair or discriminatory about secularism. Contemporary critics of secularism, Christopher Eberle and Terence Cuneo, note that it entails “There is an important asymmetry between religious and secular reasons in the following respect: some secular reasons can themselves justify state coercion but no religious reason can.”</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Another critic, Philip Quinn, observes that secularists impose “burdens on religious people” that they nowhere suggest “imposing on nonreligious people.” Secularists do “not propose that nonreligious people must be sufficiently motivated by adequate religious reason for their advocacy or support of restrictive laws or policies. The lack of symmetry is striking.”</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">This raises an obvious question, why the asymmetry? On the face of it secularism appears to privilege secular ideologies and doctrines in public debate whilst relegating religious or theological perspectives to the private sphere.  What is the basis for this? Two reasons are typically offered and neither is terribly compelling.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The first is that it is dangerous to allow theological or religious concerns into public debate. Defenders of secularism raise the specter of the wars of religion that tore Europe apart during the 17<sup>th</sup> century or they mention episodes such as the Inquisition and Crusades, which are said to be consequences of allowing religious reasons to influence public and political life. It is argued that the only way to keep social peace and prevent the kind of violence that Europe witnessed is to ensure religious reasons do not influence public life and that all political discussions take place on secular terms.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">This argument assumes that appeal to religious reasons is the cause of religious wars and appeals to secular reasons protect us against such wars. Writing in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Eberle and Cuneo note that the religious wars of the 17<sup>th</sup> century were caused not by the appeal to religious reasons <em>per se</em> but rather by the violation of religious freedom. Moreover, they note that even in the 17<sup>th</sup> century, religious persecution was typically justified on <em>secular </em>grounds. They go on to observe that religious freedom is not necessarily safeguarded by secularising public debate. They note that many “secularists have a long history of hostility to the right to religious freedom and, presumably, that hostility isn’t at all grounded in religious considerations” In addition, they note correctly that some of the most important defences of religious persecution and defences of religious tolerance, such as those proposed by John Locke and Pierre Bayle, appealed to explicitly theological grounds.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Yale philosopher Nicholas Wolterstorff makes a similar point, he notes that much of “the slaughter, torture, and generalised brutality of our century has mainly been conducted in the name of one or another secular cause&#8211;nationalism of many sorts, communism, fascism, patriotisms of various kinds, economic hegemony.” He also stated that “many of the social movements in the modern world that have moved societies in the direction of liberal democracy have been deeply and explicitly religious in their orientation.” Wolterstorff cites examples such as the abolitionist, civil rights and various other resistance movements as examples.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The assumption that secular reasoning is always tolerant and religious reasoning is always intolerant does not survive scrutiny. Particular types of religious reasons in particular political contexts can lead to wars and abuse, whereas appealing to other types of religious reasons in other contexts can be beneficent. The same is equally true of secular reasons. Certain types of secular reasons can be dangerous in particular contexts and other types of secular reasons are not. To single religious reasons out as being ‘too dangerous to be aired in public’ and insisting on a default to secular reasons seems ad hoc and unjustified.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The fear of religious wars is not the only argument typically offered for the secular public square. The main reason offered for secularism is that religious reasons are not accessible to all people. Auckland Law Professor Paul Rishworth observes, “some have contended that the nature of religious belief is such that, while it may be integral to individual autonomy and development, it has no proper role in public policy debates and that these ought to be conducted exclusively in secular terms <em>that are equally accessible to all.</em>” [<em>Emphasis added</em>]</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Something like this is also evident in defences of secularism. Leading secular Philosopher Michael Tooley states, “For it is surely true that it is inappropriate, at least in a pluralistic society, to appeal to specific theological beliefs of a non moral sort… in support of legislation <em>that will be binding upon everyone.”</em> Robert Audi, one of the leading defenders of secularism, states “as advocates for laws and public policies, then, and especially for those that are coercive, virtuous citizens will seek grounds of a kind that <em>any rational adult citizen can endorse</em> as sufficient for the purpose.” [<em>Emphasis added</em>]  In essence, because not everyone in society accepts the existence of God or some theological perspective on life then it is unjust to base laws governing their conduct on theological or religious grounds.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">This argument is deeply flawed. If taken consistently it would require not just the exclusion of religious reasons but the exclusion of any reasons that were controversial and not accepted by all people. The problem is that many secular justifications and ideologies are also controversial in the same way. Quinn makes the point,</p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">If the fact that religious reasons cannot be shared by all in a religiously pluralistic society suffices to warrant any exclusion of religious reasons for advocating or supporting restrictive laws or policies, then much else ought in fairness also to be excluded on the same grounds.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">He goes on to note,</p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">Indeed, it would seem that the appeal to any comprehensive ethical theory, including <em>all known secular ethical theories</em>, should be disallowed on the grounds that every such theory can be reasonably rejected by some citizens of a pluralistic democracy. And if justification of restrictive laws or policies can be conducted only in terms of moral considerations no citizen of a pluralistic democracy can reasonably reject, then in a pluralistic democracy such as ours very few restrictive laws or policies can be morally justified, a conclusion that would, I suspect, be welcomed only by anarchists. [<em>Emphasis added</em>]</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">I agree with Quinn. There is special pleading going on whereby theological beliefs are rejected on certain grounds, while secular ones are not, even though the same grounds and reasons, consistently applied, should lead to the rejection of secular beliefs.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">On examining secularism and the main arguments for it, it certainly is not evident that a just or fair society will have a secularised public square. To insist this is the case <em>prima facie </em>seems to favour secular views of the world for no adequate reason. Contrary to what some maintain, secular reasons, like religious reasons, can be used to justify atrocities and human rights abuses. Further, like religious reasons, secular reasons are frequently controversial and not shared by all intelligent people. Of course, secularists might consider religious views of the world to be false but then, of course, religious people consider secular views of the world to be false and given the diversity of secular moral theories on offer they cannot <em>all</em> be true (some are at odds with each other) so why single out religious views? The question remains as to why morality requires that public discussions privilege secular perspectives by requiring that all such discussions are engaged in on secular terms.  I suspect we will be waiting a long time for an answer.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: x-small;">[In this article I acknowledge being influenced by my wife Madeleine Flannagan’s supervised research paper “<a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-i.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy</a>” which she wrote under the supervision of Professor Rishworth, the Dean of the University of Auckland’s School  of Law.]</span></p>
<p><em>I write a monthly column for <a onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.investigatemagazine.com');" href="http://www.investigatemagazine.com/newshop/enter.html">Investigate   Magazine</a> entitled Contra Mundum. This blog post was published in   the June 10 issue and is reproduced here with permission. Contra Mundum   is Latin for ‘against the world;’ the phrase is usually attributed to   Athanasius who was exiled for defending Christian orthodoxy.</em></p>
<p><em>Letters to the editor should be sent  to:  editorial@investigatemagazine.DELETE.com</em></p>
<p><strong>RELATED POSTS:<br />
 </strong><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/05/contra-mundum-richard-dawkins-and-open-mindedness.html">Contra Mundum: Richard Dawkins and Open Mindedness</a><a title="Permanent Link to Contra Mundum: Slavery and the  Old Testament" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/04/contra-mundum-slavery-and-the-old-testament.html"><br />
 Contra Mundum: Slavery and the Old Testament</a> <a title="Permanent Link to Contra Mundum: Secular Smoke  Screens and Plato’s Euthyphro" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/03/contra-mundum-secular-smoke-screens-and-plato%e2%80%99s-euthyphro-2.html"><br />
 Contra Mundum: Secular Smoke Screens and  Plato’s Euthyphro</a><strong><br />
 </strong><a title="Permanent Link to Contra Mundum: What’s Wrong with  Imposing your Beliefs onto Others?" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/09/contra-mundum-whats-wrong-with-imposing-your-beliefs-onto-others.html">Contra  Mundum: What’s Wrong with Imposing your Beliefs onto Others?<br />
 </a><a title="Permanent Link to Contra Mundum: God, Proof and Faith" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/10/contra-mundum-god-proof-and-faith.html">Contra Mundum: God, Proof and Faith</a> <br />
 <a title="Permanent Link to Contra Mundum: “Bigoted Fundamentalist” as  Orwellian Double-Speak" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/contra-mundum-%e2%80%9cbigoted-fundamentalist%e2%80%9d-as-orwellian-double-speak.html">Contra Mundum: “Bigoted Fundamentalist” as Orwellian Double-Speak</a><br />
 <a title="Permanent Link to Contra Mundum: The Flat-Earth Myth" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/12/contra-mundum-the-flat-earth-myth.html">Contra Mundum: The Flat-Earth Myth</a><br />
 <a title="Permanent Link to Contra Mundum: Confessions of an  Anti-Choice Fanatic" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/01/contra-mundum-confessions-of-an-anti-choice-fanatic.html">Contra Mundum: Confessions of an Anti-Choice Fanatic</a><br />
 <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2010/01/contra-mundum-the-judgmental-jesus.html">Contra Mundum: The Judgmental Jesus</a></p>
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		<title>Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part III</title>
		<link>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iii.html?utm_source=rss&amp;utm_medium=rss&amp;utm_campaign=religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iii</link>
		<comments>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iii.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 05:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Madeleine</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[God and Morality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jurists]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophy of Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Political Philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Public Policy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion and Public Life]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Rights and Freedoms]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christopher Eberle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Doctrine of Religious Restraint]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Freedom of Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gerald Gaus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Glenn Peoples]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Rawls]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jurisprudence]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Law Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Nicholas Wolterstorff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philip Quinn]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Robert Audi]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=1985</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In my last posts, beginning Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I, I set out the doctrine of religious restraint and touched on some criticisms of it. I looked at and critiqued some of the key arguments in support of the doctrine of religious restraint. In this post I will look at the objection that [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>In my last posts, beginning </em><em><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-i.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I</a></em><em><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part II" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-ii.html"></a></em><em>, I set out the doctrine of religious restraint and touched on some criticisms of it. I looked at and critiqued some of the key arguments in support of the doctrine of religious restraint. </em><em>In this post I will look at the objection that the argument from respect is too thin, that applied consistently it excludes too much. I will conclude by looking at</em><em> Audi’s response to this.</em></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>(b)        Thinness</em></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">A closely related problem is that if it is applied consistently the argument from respect excludes too much. If justification is limited to principles that no reasonable person can reasonably be expected to reject then little will be able to be justified. Glenn Peoples notes the problem;<a href="#_ftn1">[31]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">Given this view of justification, you can only endorse a policy if it is such that it can be endorsed in light of the <em>actual</em> beliefs and goals held by the KKK, the Catholic Church and the humanist rationalist society.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Wolterstorff observes that “in our actual societies, anyone who embraced this position would simply refrain from advocating any position whatsoever on any issue of importance to society.”<a href="#_ftn2">[32]</a> Quinn agrees, “as Wolterstorff notes, he knows of no law or policy that has come up for discussion in the United Sates in recent years that has had the support of a consensus of all the rational adult citizens.”<a href="#_ftn3">[33]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Gerald Gaus, who is otherwise sympathetic to the DRR, also agrees; he notes that, given Rawls’s requirement for consensus, public reason “loses its character as a liberal doctrine, for little, if anything, is the object of consensus among reasonable people.”<a href="#_ftn4">[34]</a> Kent Greenawalt argues that public reason is incapable of grounding policy on most contentious political issues.<a href="#_ftn5">[35]</a> Peter de Marneffe concurs.<a href="#_ftn6">[36]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Wolterstorff contends that public reason must be supplemented by ideas drawn from comprehensive doctrines or it will not be able to function as an adequate base for justifying many substantive policies. To make his point, Wolterstorff cites the welfare debate. Advocates for the varying perspectives appeal to ‘freedom’ and ‘equality’ but mean different things by these terms; they prioritise the relevant rights differently, they disagree as to how such rights should be weighed against social utility. It is unlikely that public reason, common sense and uncontroversial science can justify welfare legislation to a standard that all can reasonably accept. <a href="#_ftn7">[37]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Wolterstorff makes similar points over the fundamental premise in the abortion debate; equal protection has radically different meanings depending on how one interprets public reason’s answer to the question, ‘is the fetus a person or not?’<a href="#_ftn8">[38]</a> Eberle,<a href="#_ftn9">[39]</a> Quinn<a href="#_ftn10">[40]</a> and Jean Hampton<a href="#_ftn11">[41]</a> agree that public reason cannot settle the question as to whether a fetus is a person yet Rawls argues that public reason <em>can</em> settle the abortion debate (case in point: reasonable people disagree over the answers public reason can give). <a href="#_ftn12">[42]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Rawls’ version of the argument from respect is not the only one that faces these problems; similar issues arise with other conceptions of the DRR. Any attempt to ground the DRR in the notion that coercive legislation cannot be justified unless the reasons advanced can be grounded in the reasonably-held principles and beliefs shared by all people will face the same problem. This is evident when one examines other versions of the DRR which do not employ Rawls’ idea of public reason.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Rawls employs public reason to place a restraint on all comprehensive viewpoints, whether religious or secular. Robert Audi’s position is less restrictive. Audi applies the restraint primarily to religious reasons. He proposes a principle of “secular rationale”, a principle of “secular motivation” and something he calls “theo-ethical equilibrium.”<a href="#_ftn13">[43]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">His secular rationale principle claims that “one should not advocate or support any law or public policy that restricts human conduct unless one has, and is willing to offer, adequate secular reason for this advocacy or support.”<a href="#_ftn14">[44]</a> His principle of secular motivation goes further; “one should not advocate or promote any legal or public policy restrictions on human conduct unless one not only has and is willing to offer, but is also motivated by, adequate secular reason, where this reason (or set of reasons) is motivationally sufficient for the conduct in question.”<a href="#_ftn15">[45]</a> Theo-ethical equilibrium is “a rational integration between religious deliverances and insights and, on the other hand, secular ethical considerations … a mature, conscientious theist who cannot reach it [theo-ethical equilibrium] should be reluctant or unwilling to support coercive laws or public policies on a religious basis that cannot be placed in that equilibrium.”<a href="#_ftn16">[46]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Audi argues that “an adequate reason for a law or policy is a proposition whose truth is sufficient to justify it.”<a href="#_ftn17">[47]</a> He places the restraint on religious reasons;<a href="#_ftn18">[48]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">A secular reason is, roughly, one whose normative force, that is, its status as a prima facie justificatory element, does not (evidentially) depend on the existence of God (for example, through appeals to divine command) or on theological considerations (such as interpretations of a sacred text), or on the pronouncements of a person or institution qua religious authority.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Given that comprehensive secular perspectives are not excluded by this version of the DRR, it appears that Audi’s conception can escape the problem of thinness that Rawls’ public reason faces. Comprehensive secular viewpoints should provide people with a thicker perspective, broad enough to justify many substantive policies.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">However, an examination of the reasons Audi advances in favour of his version of the DRR will reveal this contention to be mistaken. By broadening public reason to adequate secular reason Audi’s position is thicker than Rawls’ but its asymmetrical treatment of religious and secular views puts it back in the path of the charges of incoherence and thinness. I will elaborate.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Like Rawls, Audi offers a version of the argument from respect. He states “as advocates for laws and public policies, then, and especially for those that are coercive, virtuous citizens will seek grounds of a kind that <em>any rational adult citizen can endorse</em> as sufficient for the purpose”<a href="#_ftn19">[49]</a> [<em>Emphasis added</em>] In another article, he argues that<a href="#_ftn19">[50]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">adherence to the principle of secular rationale helps to ensure that, in determining the scope of freedom in a society, the decisive principles and considerations can be shared by people of differing religious views, or even no religious convictions at all.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Audi assumes that secular views are accepted by all whereas not everyone accepts the truth of religious premises. This is a big assumption. In fact some secular views are not accepted by all; religious people can and do reasonably reject secular views. This renders Audi’s position incoherent as adherence to Audi’s position, by Audi’s position, requires us to reject it. Quinn explains, <a href="#_ftn21">[51]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">If the fact that religious reasons cannot be shared by all in a religiously pluralistic society suffices to warrant any exclusion of religious reasons for advocating or supporting restrictive laws or policies, then much else ought in fairness also to be excluded on the same grounds. For example, justification of a restrictive law or policy by an appeal to its maximization of utility should be excluded because many citizens reasonably reject utilitarianism. Indeed, it would seem that the appeal to any comprehensive ethical theory, including all known secular ethical theories, should be disallowed on the grounds that every such theory can be reasonably rejected by some citizens of a pluralistic democracy. And if justification of restrictive laws or policies can be conducted only in terms of moral considerations no citizen of a pluralistic democracy can reasonably reject, then in a pluralistic democracy such as ours very few restrictive laws or policies can be morally justified, a conclusion that would, I suspect, be welcomed only by anarchists.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">In addition, Audi’s position imposes a burden on religion that is not imposed on secularism despite secularism possessing the same features used to exclude religion. In the absence of some other factor, specific to religion and not applicable to secularism, the asymmetry is arbitrary. To escape this problem Audi would have to reject not only religious reasons but all reasons that are not “shared by people of differing religious views, or even no religious convictions at all.” However, if he takes this line, his position is rendered too thin and fares no better than Rawls.’</p>
<h5 style="text-align: justify;">(c)        Audi’s defence</h5>
<p style="text-align: justify;">In a defence of his position against this line of critique, Robert Audi questions if the DRR is as thin as critics maintain, <a href="#_ftn22">[52]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">I would think that if we stick to principles of justice, which form only a small part of a comprehensive view, and if we do not take agreement to imply unanimity as opposed to consensus, there is a better chance of agreement than on the whole of such a larger view. Perhaps the chance is still not good, … But is there not a strong consensus, at least among citizens of democratic societies, that justice requires not only equal protection of the laws but also laws that protect liberty, including political and religious liberty and freedom of speech, up to a certain level? There are of course disagreements on matters of detail&#8230;</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">While it is true that most people hold to some conception of justice and equality, and affirm the right to exercise certain liberties, the details of their understanding of these norms are not as minor as Audi suggests. As I alluded to earlier, people can mean quite different things by these terms and can prioritise and weigh their importance quite differently. Closer examination of these “matters of detail” reveals substantive lack of consensus.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Equal protection requires agreement over the question as to whom it applies. In Nazi Germany everyone was owed equal protection by the state; however, certain classes of people were deemed sub-human. Likewise with justifications offered for the new-world slavery as practised in the British Empire and antebellum United States, slaves did not qualify; similarly, with the abortion debate over the status of the fetus. Then there is the extent and nature of the protection to consider. Should the state regulate how many times a week one engages in exercise and eats fruit and vegetables on the grounds of protecting the health of its people or should it simply protect people from aggressors? Is Audi suggesting that simply agreeing that such protection should apply equally to all is sufficient to make his case and what form that should take is mere detail? Unless supplemented by definitions as to its recipients, nature and scope the term “equal protection before the law” is a vague statement lacking substantive content.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The liberties Audi lists are also fraught with difficulty in interpretation as reasonable people do not agree on them.  Are they negative or does the state have a duty to provide or subsidise them? The substantive content and meaning of the terms ‘freedom’ and ‘liberty’ is disputed depending on whether one is talking to a libertarian or a socialist. Then there are the problems specific to each liberty.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Consider freedom of religion. Steven Smith has argued that, strictly speaking, it is inaccurate to claim there is such a thing as a right to freedom religion. Instead there exists a spectrum of views about religious tolerance. Diverse writers, such as Aquinas, Cromwell, Locke and Mill each agreed that some religious dissent should be tolerated by the state but disagreed both on the limits and on which religions should be tolerated in society. Smith concluded that as no state tolerates all religious sects and very few tolerate none, the idea of a concept of freedom of religion supported by some and opposed by others is illusory. Which account of religious tolerance is correct depends on comprehensive views; adjudication between different understandings of religious tolerance is not possible without appealing to some comprehensive view. Settling these matters from something like public reason or adequate secular reason seems extremely difficult.<a href="#_ftn23">[53]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Does freedom of speech entail prior restraint or does it stop at the initiation of force? What about content and the manner of expression? How should we define speech? Does it include a right to engage in hate, racist, blasphemous, defamatory or sexist speech? Is it acceptable to wear Nazi emblems or deny the holocaust?</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Reasonable people disagree over more than just the details; they disagree over the terms, the nature, the extent and hold to a different range of finite cases. People use and understand the relevant terms in very different ways. Audi misconstrues the situation when he argues there is unanimity in society on fundamental principles of justice. The thinness objection stands.<span style="font-size: small;"><a href="#_ftnref1">[54]</a></span></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>In my next post, <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iv.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part IV</a></em><em>, I will look at Gerald Gaus&#8217; attempt to salvage the argument from epistemic inaccessibility and will offer some critical analysis of this.</em></p>
<hr style="text-align: justify;" size="1" />
<p style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><a href="#_ftnref1">[31]</a> Glenn Peoples <em>Religion in the Public Square: Liberal Political Philosophy and the Place of Religious Convictions</em><a href="#_ftnref2"><br />
 [32]</a> Nicholas Wolterstorff “The Role of Religion in Decision and Discussion of Political Issues” in Nicholas Wolterstorff &amp; Robert Audi (eds) <em>Religion in the Public Square: The Place of Religious Convictions in Political Debate</em> (Rowman and Littlefield Publishers Inc, Lanham Md, 1997) 67-120, 154.<a href="#_ftnref3"><br />
 [33]</a> Philip Quinn “Religion in the Public Square: The Place of Religious Convictions in Political Debate” (2000) 60:2 <cite>Philosophy and Phenomenological Research</cite> 486, 487 (book review), 488.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref4">[34]</a> Gerald Gaus <em>Justificatory Liberalism: An Essay on Epistemology and Political Theor</em>y (Oxford University Press, New York, 1996) 293.<a href="#_ftnref5"><br />
 [35]</a> Kent Greenawalt <em>Private Consciences and Public Reasons</em> (Oxford University Press, New York, 1995) 141-150.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref6">[36]</a> Peter de Marneffe “Rawls’s Idea of Public Reason” (1994) 75 Pacific Philosophical Quarterly232.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref7">[37]</a> Wolterstorff, above n 32, 103-104.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref8">[38]</a> Ibid 104.<a href="#_ftnref9"><br />
 [39]</a> Christopher Eberle <em>Religious Convictions in Liberal Politics </em>(Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 2002) 217-222.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref10">[40]</a> Phillip Quinn “Political Liberalisms and Their Exclusions of the Religious” (1995) 69:2 Proceedings and Addresses of the American Philosophical Association 35, 37-46.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref11">[41]</a> Jean Hampton “The Common Faith of Liberalism” (1994) 75 Pacific Philosophical Quarterly<em> </em>208.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref12">[42]</a> John Rawls <em>Political Liberalism </em>(Columbia University Press, New York, 1993) 243-244.<a href="#_ftnref13"><br />
 [43]</a> Robert Audi “Liberal Democracy and the Place of Religion in Politics” in Nicholas Wolterstorff &amp; Robert Audi (eds) <em>Religion in the Public Square: The Place of Religious Convictions in Political Debate</em> (Rowman and Littlefield Publishers Inc, Lanham Md, 1997) 1-66, 25-37.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref14">[44]</a> Robert Audi “The Separation of Church and State and the Obligations of Citizenship” (1989) 18 Philosophy and Public Affairs 259, 279.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref15">[45]</a> Ibid 284.<a href="#_ftnref16"><br />
 [46]</a> Audi, above n 43, 21.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref17">[47]</a> Audi, above n 44, 284.<a href="#_ftnref18"><br />
 [48]</a> Ibid 278.<a href="#_ftnref19"><br />
 [49]</a> Audi, above n 43, 17.<a href="#_ftnref20"><br />
 [50]</a> Audi, above n 44, 290.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref21">[51]</a> Quinn, above n 40, 39-40.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref22">[52]</a> Audi, above n 43, 131-132.<br />
 <a href="#_ftnref23">[53]</a> Steven Smith <em>Foreordained Failure: The Quest for a Constitutional Principle of Religious Freedom</em> (Oxford University Press, New York, 1995). (PhD Thesis, University  of Otago, 2007) 118.<br />
 </span><span style="font-size: x-small;"><a href="#_ftnref1">[54]</a></span> <span style="font-size: x-small;">Paul Rishworth suggests these examples do not show there is no secular consensus but rather that there is a secular consensus at a high level of abstraction. Supervisor’s feedback from Paul Rishworth to Madeleine Flannagan dated 30 October 2009. This may be the case, however, the thinness objection does not maintain that there is no secular consensus; it maintains that there is no secular consensus thick enough to provide an answer to many substantive public policy questions. For Rishworth’s objection to stand, this higher level of abstraction would have to furnish principles thick enough to answer such questions and the examples above show that it cannot.</span></p>
<p><strong>RELATED POSTS:</strong><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-i.html"><br />
 Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part II" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-ii.html"><br />
 </a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-ii.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part II</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part III" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iii.html"><br />
 </a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iii.html"></a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iv.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part IV</a><br />
 <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-v.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part V</a><br />
 <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/12/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-vi.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part VI</a></p>
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		<title>Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I</title>
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		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Madeleine</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[God and Morality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jurists]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophy of Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Political Philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Public Policy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion and Public Life]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Rights and Freedoms]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christopher Eberle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Doctrine of Religious Restraint]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Freedom of Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jurisprudence]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Law Studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Nicholas Wolterstorff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philip Quinn]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Stephen Carter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Terence Cuneo]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandm.org.nz/?p=1969</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In this series I set out the doctrine of religious restraint, the idea that in a pluralistic, liberal, society religious beliefs should not be utilised in the formation of public policy. I note that this doctrine entails an asymmetrical treatment of religious and secular beliefs, which appears to conflict with the central notion of liberal [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>In this series I set out the doctrine of religious restraint, the idea that in a pluralistic, liberal, society religious beliefs should not be utilised in the formation of public policy. I note that this doctrine entails an asymmetrical treatment of religious and secular beliefs, which appears to conflict with the central notion of liberal democracy that all people are equal and that the state should be neutral in respect to different conceptions of the good. I examine several key arguments in support of the doctrine and some defences of this asymmetry. I argue these arguments are subject to numerous difficulties and the asymmetry appears arbitrary and unjustified.</em></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">As far back as the birth of liberal democracy commentators have proposed various forms of epistemological restraint on the nature and extent of the justifications offered for coercive laws. Justification is important because central to the concept of liberal democracy is the notion that all people are free and equal. Broadly speaking, the state must accord equal protection to all who come within its territory. Public policy must allow people equal freedom to live their lives as they see fit. Every adult must have an equal voice in the governance of society through the democratic process. Charles Larmore sums this up,<a href="#_ftn1">[1]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">The familiar constitutional rights of free-expression, property, and political participation, though no doubt serving to promote the goal of democratic self-rule, also have an independent rationale. They draw upon that most fundamental of individual rights, which is the right [of every person] to equal respect.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">A diversity of beliefs, views and religions flourishes as people avail themselves of these liberties and come to different understandings about life, the world they live in, the meanings and purposes thereof. The fact of this plurality invites an important corollary to the concept of liberal democracy, typically formulated as the idea that the state must remain neutral with respect to the different religions and comprehensive viewpoints present within society.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">This is not to say that the state must hold that all views are equally true, just or good. Likewise, it is not a requirement that the state must adopt the incoherent stance of affirming (as a truth) that there is no such thing as truth. Nor that it should not concern itself with injustice or deleterious conduct. What is meant by this requirement is that, as a body that exists to serve the people, it is not the state’s role to rule on what is or is not the correct philosophy, worldview or religion; each person must be free to determine this. The state being neutral in this way shows equal respect for the freedom of all people.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">When state neutrality is conjoined with the concepts of all people being free, equal and worthy of respect, it follows that coercive legislation needs justification. If people are worthy of respect then there exists a prima facie presumption against state coercion. A commitment to state neutrality entails that justification must be drawn from neutral grounds. I will refer to this view of liberal democracy as “the standard view.”</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Common to almost all versions of the standard view is some form of restraint on religious reasons being offered as a form of justification. Richard Rorty, alluding to Jefferson’s famous reference to a wall of separation, describes this as <a href="#_ftn2">[2]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">the happy, Jeffersonian compromise that the Enlightenment reached with the religious. This compromise consists in privatizing religion &#8212; keeping it out of … “the public square,” making it seem bad taste to bring religion into discussions of public policy.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The doctrine is more than just a restraint on religious reasons; Nicholas Wolterstorff expounds further;<a href="#_ftn3"><sup><sup>[3]</sup></sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">Definitive of the position is a negation at this point: citizens (and officials) <em>are not</em> to base their decisions and/or debates concerning political issues on their religious convictions. When it comes to such activities, they are to allow their religious convictions to idle. They are to base their political decisions and their political debate in the public space on the principles yielded by some source <em>independent of</em> any and all of the religious perspectives to be found in society. … The source must be such that it is <em>fair</em> to insist that everybody base his or her political decisions, as well as public political debates, on the principles yielded by that source.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Paul Rishworth writes, “some have contended that the nature of religious belief is such that, while it may be integral to individual autonomy and development, it has no proper role in public policy debates and that these ought to be conducted exclusively in secular terms that are equally accessible to all.”<a href="#_ftn4">[4]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><strong> </strong></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Christopher Eberle and Terence Cuneo refer to this position as the doctrine of religious restraint (DRR) that they define canonically as<a href="#_ftn5">[5]</a><strong> </strong></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><strong> </strong></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;"><strong>The DRR: </strong>a citizen of a liberal democracy may support the implementation of a coercive law L just in case he reasonably believes himself to have a plausible secular justification for L, which he is prepared to offer in political discussion. [<em>Emphasis original</em>]</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Eberle and Cuneo explain the implications of the DRR, “if a citizen is trying to determine whether or not she should support some coercive law, and if she believes that there is no plausible secular rationale for that law, then she may not support it.”<a href="#_ftn6">[6]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><strong>I           The Doctrine of Religious Restraint</strong></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">As Wolterstorff identifies in the quotes above, the restraint is negative; justifications for coercive laws must <em>not</em> be religious. The extent and nature of the independent source that acceptable justifications may be drawn from varies depending on which advocate one reads; all agree that a coercive law must be able to be justified by a plausible <em>secular</em> justification if it is to be neutral.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Defenders of the DRR claim that it need not be codified. It is a moral requirement upon people regardless of their role within society; some form of censure rather than legal stricture is what is suggested. Rorty reflects this when he refers to it being “bad taste” to bring religion into the public square. Stephen Carter puts it clearly;<a href="#_ftn7">[7]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">One good way to end a conversation – or start an argument – is to tell a group of well educated professionals that you hold a political position (preferably a controversial one such as being against abortion or pornography) because it is required by your understanding of God’s will. In the unlikely event that anyone hangs around to talk with you about it, chances are that you will be challenged on the ground that you are intent on imposing your religious beliefs on other people. And in contemporary political and legal culture, nothing is worse.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">There is an asymmetry present in most versions of the DRR; state coercion can be justified by some secular justifications but it can never be justified by religious justifications. In reviewing a definitive defence of the DRR advanced by Robert Audi, Philip Quinn observes;<a href="#_ftn8">[8]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">These principles impose burdens on religious people that Audi nowhere suggests imposing on nonreligious people. … Audi does not propose that nonreligious people must be sufficiently motivated by adequate religious reason for their advocacy or support of restrictive laws or politicise. The lack of symmetry is striking.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Eberle and Cuneo, in their discussion of the DRR, note the same asymmetry;<a href="#_ftn9">[9]</a></p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">There is an important asymmetry between religious and secular reasons in the following respect: some secular reasons can themselves justify state coercion but no religious reason can. This asymmetry between the justificatory potential of religious and secular reasons, it is further claimed, should shape the political practice of religious believers. According to advocates of the standard view, citizens should not support coercive laws for which they believe there is no plausible secular rationale, although they may support coercive laws for which they believe there is only a secular rationale.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Not surprisingly, the DRR is controversial despite its current orthodoxy. Religious believers are required to omit beliefs they understand to be true or hold as important when they grapple with public policy. Stephen Carter captures the sentiment well when he labels this “the separation of church and self.”<a href="#_ftn10">[10]</a> Yet defenders of the DRR maintain that some form of religious restraint is not only in accord with the notion of liberal democracy but essential to it, as Rorty puts it, “we shall not be able to keep a democratic political community going unless the religious believers remain willing to trade privatization for a guarantee of religious liberty.”<a href="#_ftn11">[11]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">For the DRR to be as pervasively held in the literature, in society generally and within religious-freedom jurisprudence there must exist good reasons as to how the DRR does uphold the concepts of equal protection, freedom, voice and neutrality in spite of the charges critics level against it.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>In my next posts in this series, <a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part II" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-ii.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part II</a></em><em>, I will look at some of the arguments for the doctrine of religious restraint. These are mostly variants of appeals to respect (such as the golden rule, epistemic inaccessibility) or arguments around the dangers of religion.</em></p>
<hr style="text-align: justify;" size="1" />
<p style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><a href="#_ftnref1">[1]</a> Charles Larmore quoted in Michael J Perry <em>Under God? Religious Faith and Liberal Democracy</em> (Cambridge University Press, New York, 2003) 36.<a href="#_ftnref2"><br />
 [2]</a> Richard Rorty “Religion as a Conversation-Stopper” (1994) 3:1 Common Knowledge 1, 2.<a href="#_ftnref3"><br />
 [3]</a> Nicholas Wolterstorff “The Role of Religion in Decision and Discussion of Political Issues” in Nicholas Wolterstorff &amp; Robert Audi (eds) <em>Religion in the Public Square: The Place of Religious Convictions in Political Debate</em> (Rowman and Littlefield Publishers Inc, Lanham Md, 1997) 67-120, 73.<a href="#_ftnref4"><br />
 [4]</a> Paul Rishworth “Freedom of Thought, Conscience, and Religion” in Paul Rishworth, Grant Hushcroft, Scott Optican and Richard Mahoney (eds) <em>The New Zealand Bill of Rights</em> (Oxford University Press, Melbourne, 2003) 277-307, 279.<a href="#_ftnref5"><br />
 [5]</a> Christopher J. Eberle and Terence Cuneo “Religion and Political Theory” (2008) <a href="http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/religion-politics"><em>Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy</em></a> (at 9 August 2009).<a href="#_ftnref6"><br />
 [6]</a> Ibid.<a href="#_ftnref7"><br />
 [7]</a> Stephen Carter <em>The Culture of Disbelief: How American Law and Politics Trivialise Religious Devotion</em> (Basic Books, New York, 1993) 23-24.<a href="#_ftnref8"><br />
 [8]</a> Philip Quinn “Religion in the Public Square: The Place of Religious Convictions in Political Debate” (2000) 60:2 <cite>Philosophy and Phenomenological Research</cite> 486, 487 (book review).<a href="#_ftnref9"><br />
 [9]</a> Eberle and Cuneo, above n 5.<a href="#_ftnref10"><br />
 [10]</a> Carter, above n 7, 1.<a href="#_ftnref11"><br />
 [11]</a> Rorty, above n 2, 3.</span></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em>This series was written as a <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/my-supervised-research-paper-grade.....html#more-1966">supervised research paper in pursuit of my LLB</a>. </em><em>I am very grateful to a number of people who personally encouraged me, gave feedback, recommended  resources  or were good enough to supply me with their own &#8211; particularly my supervisor, Paul Rishworth; philosophers: Glenn Peoples, Lydia McGrew, Alexander Pruss, Francis J Beckwith, Nicholas Wolterstorff and my husband, Matthew Flannagan.</em></p>
<p><strong>RELATED POSTS:</strong><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part I" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-i.html"><br />
 </a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-ii.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part II</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part III" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iii.html"><br />
 </a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iii.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part III</a><a title="Permanent Link to Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part IV" rel="bookmark" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iv.html"><br />
 </a><a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-iv.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part IV</a><br />
 <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/11/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-v.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part V</a><br />
 <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/12/religious-restraint-and-public-policy-part-vi.html">Religious Restraint and Public Policy: Part VI</a></p>
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		<title>John W. Loftus on The Christian Illusion of Moral Superiority Part I</title>
		<link>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/05/john-w-loftus-on-the-christian-illusion-of-moral-superiority-part-i.html?utm_source=rss&amp;utm_medium=rss&amp;utm_campaign=john-w-loftus-on-the-christian-illusion-of-moral-superiority-part-i</link>
		<comments>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/05/john-w-loftus-on-the-christian-illusion-of-moral-superiority-part-i.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 21:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Atheists]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Divine Command Theory]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[God and Morality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Loftus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philip Quinn]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Robert Adams]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Stephen Evans]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[William Alston]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandm.churchweb.co.nz/2009/05/john-w-loftus-on-the-christian-illusion-of-moral-superiority-part-i/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Several Christian thinkers, most notably, C S Lewis, John Hare, Robert Adams and William Lane Craig have argued that Theism provides a superior foundation for moral obligation than Naturalism does. Most of these thinkers defend this notion by developing and defending a divine command theory.[1] John W Loftus is aware of this and in The [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: justify;">Several Christian thinkers, most notably, C S Lewis, John Hare, Robert Adams and William Lane Craig have argued that Theism provides a superior foundation for moral obligation than Naturalism does. Most of these thinkers defend this notion by developing and defending a divine command theory.<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn1">[1]</a> John W Loftus is aware of this and in <a href="http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/">The Christian Illusion of Moral Superiority</a>, he offers a refutation of divine command theory. I will argue that Loftus is mistaken; his arguments are based on a confusion between ontological and epistemological foundations.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><strong>Avoiding Strawmen</strong><br />
 Before turning to Loftus’ arguments, it is necessary to spell out exactly what a divine command theory of ethics is. It is the thesis that “an action or kind of action is right or wrong if and only if and <em>because</em> it is commanded or forbidden by God.”<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn2">[2]</a> two things are noteworthy about this definition.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><em><strong>What is a Divine Command Theory?</strong><br />
 </em>First, the thesis is limited to deontological properties. Philip Quinn defines deontological properties as follows, “I mean to refer to whether it has such properties as being morally permitted, being morally forbidden or prohibited, and being morally obligatory or required.”<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn3">[3]</a> Deontological properties are contrasted with axiological properties such as goodness and badness. Evans notes, “it does not appear that the concept of obligation is identical to the concept of what it is ‘good to do’ … It might be good, even saintly, for me to give a kidney to benefit a stranger, but it not an act I am obliged to do.”<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn4">[4]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Despite frequently being portrayed this way in common critiques, divine command theories do not offer accounts of broader axiological properties. This is evident from the writings of those who defend such theories. Quinn, after defining deontological properties in the aforementioned way, affirms he is not offering a divine command theory of axiological properties. In this he is followed by Adams, Alston, Craig, Wierenga, Hare and Plantinga and, even to some extent, Thomas Carson. This is not something unique to modern divine command theories; older divine command theorists such as Paley, Locke, Berkley and Suarez typically limited divine command theories to accounts of deontological properties and not to broader axiological properties such as goodness in general.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The second point is to note is that the word “because” in English is ambiguous. When a divine command theorist claims that “an action or kind of action is right or wrong if and only if and <em>because</em> it is commanded or forbidden by God.”<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn5">[5]</a> The theorist could mean either, that one cannot know what is right and wrong unless one believes in divine commands; or that right and wrong cannot exist independently of Gods commands. The first claim states that beliefs about right and wrong are epistemologically dependent on beliefs about divine commands. The second is that the existence of moral properties, such as right and wrong, are ontologically dependent on God’s commands.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">It is important to note that epistemological dependence and ontological dependence are not the same thing. Take a straightforward example of identity; the property of being water is identical with (or constituted by) the property of being H20. As such, H20 and water are not ontologically independent. Yet people for thousands of years could perceive water, drink it, detect it and use it without knowing anything about atomic theory. Hence, our knowledge of the existence water is not dependent on our knowledge of H20.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">When divine command theorists state that an action or kind of action is right or wrong if and only if and <em>because</em> it is commanded or forbidden by God they are using “because” in an ontological sense. The <em>locus classicus</em> for contemporary defences of divine command theory is the work of Robert Adams who affirms that “ethical wrongness is [identical with] the property of being contrary to the commands of a loving God.”<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn6">[6]</a> Adams here states that the relationship between the property of being contrary to God&#8217;s commands and wrongness is the ontological relationship of identity.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Elsewhere in the article he is explicit about this; he suggests that wrongness is identical with or constituted by being contrary to divine commands in the same way that water is constituted by (or identical with) H20. Other divine command theorists explicitly follow Adam&#8217;s lead on this. Stephen Evans and William Alston both affirm that divine commands are constitutive of deontological properties and note Adams’ identity claim as a paradigm of the type of relationship he is defending.<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn7">[7]</a> Craig cites Alston<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn8">[8]</a> as the inspiration for his position and contends that “commands constitute our moral duties”<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn9">[9]</a> he explains that by this he means to make divine commands an ontological foundation, and in particular, the concept of “informative identity”<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn10">[10]</a> analogous to the way “we explain the nature of water by identifying it with H20 or explain the nature of heat by identifying it with molecular motion.”<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn11">[11]</a> Craig is explicit that he is not offering divine commands as an epistemological foundation, “It would, indeed, be arrogant and ignorant to claim that people cannot be good without belief in God. But that was not the question.”<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn12">[12]</a>Also, “My concern here is with moral ontology not moral epistemology &#8230; to repeat, my concern is with an ontological foundation for morality, not with epistemological foundations.”<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn13">[13]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The other leading defenders of divine command theory are equally clear that they are proposing a theory of the ontological and not the epistemological foundations of moral obligation. Quinn,<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn14">[14]</a> Weirenga,<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn15">[15]</a> Hare<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn16">[16]</a> and Plantinga<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn17">[17]</a> all offer accounts of the ontological foundations of deontological properties. Janine Marie Idziak notes that, historically, divine command theories were usually understood as ontological theories and not epistemological theories about how one knows what is right and wrong.<a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftn18">[18]</a></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><strong><em>John Loftus’ Mischaracterisation of Divine Command Theories</em></strong><br />
 These observations lead into my main criticism of Loftus’ discussion. Loftus mistakenly understands divine command theories as signifying epistemological dependence. At the beginning of his article Loftus refers to the view that “[moral] standards are grounded in the commands of a good creator God, and these commands come from God’s very nature” and infers from this that “the Christian claims to have absolute and objective ethical standards for <em>knowing </em>right from wrong, which is something they claim atheists don’t have” [<em>Emphasis added</em>] here Loftus suggests that the claim that right and wrong depend on God&#8217;s commands is the claim that knowledge of right and wrong depends on belief in divine commands.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The same interpretation is seen elsewhere in his chapter when he defines a divine command theory Loftus states Morality is based upon what God commands. “No other reasons are needed but that God so commanded it. If God commanded it, then it is right. If God forbids it, then it is wrong.” and citing the Divine Command theory of William Lane Craig he states “Many Christians will maintain they have a superior foundation for <em>knowing</em> and for choosing to do what is good. They claim to have objective ethical standards for being good, based in a morally good creator God, and that the atheist has no ultimate justification for being moral.” [<em>Emphasis added</em>] Despite the fact that Craig and other divine command theorists have repeatedly stated they claim no such thing.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Another problem with Loftus’ characterisation is that in several places he suggests that divine command theories claim that axiological properties such as goodness depend on God&#8217;s commands. He states, for example, that divine command theory entails that “God could’ve commanded something else, or even something contrary, or something horribly evil and simply declared it good” or that “If we think that the commands of God are good merely because he commands them, then his commands are….well….just his commands.” Examples could be multiplied; the problem is, as I have noted, divine command theorists typically do not offer their theories as foundations for axiological properties, they limit their theories to deontological properties.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">These misconstruals undermine many of the criticisms Loftus makes. As I will show, many of his objections are based on a conflation between epistemology and ontology.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">In my next post, <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/05/john-w-loftus-on-the-christian-illusion-of-moral-superiority-part-ii/">John W. Loftus on The Christian Illusion of Moral Superiority Part II</a>, I will address Loftus&#8217; arguments against a divine command theory, the emptiness of God is good and his arbitrariness objection.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref1">[1]</a> C S Lewis rejected a divine command theory; I believe, however, that Lewis&#8217; dismissal is based on unsound arguments and the divine command theory coheres better with his argument in <em>Mere Christianity</em> as I argued in my paper “God and the Moral Law in C. S. Lewis” <em>Theological Perspectives on C S Lewis Conference</em> Carey Baptist College, Auckland, 1 July 2008.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref2">[2]</a> W K Frankena <em>Ethics</em> 2nd edn (Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice-Hall, 1973) 28.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref3">[3]</a> Philip Quinn “An Argument for Divine Command Theory” in <em>Christian Theism and the Problems of Philosophy</em> ed. Michael Beaty (Notre Dame, IN: University of Notre Dame Press, 1990) 291.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref4">[4]</a> C Stephen Evans <em>Kierkegaard’s Ethic of Love: Divine Commands and Moral Obligations</em> (New York: Oxford University Press, 2004) 16.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref5">[5]</a> Frankena <em>Ethics</em> 28.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref6">[6]</a> Robert Adams “Divine Command Meta-Ethics Modified Again” <em>Journal of Religious Ethics</em> 7:1 (1979) 76.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref7">[7]</a> William Alston “Some Suggestions for Divine Command Theorists” in <em>Christian Theism and the Problems of Philosophy</em> ed. Michael Beaty (Notre Dame, IN: University of Notre Dame Press, 1990) 303-304.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref8">[8]</a> William Lane Craig “This Most Gruesome of Guests” eds Robert K Garcia and Nathan King <em>Is Goodness Without God Good Enough? A Debate on Faith Secularism and Ethics</em> (Lanhan: Rowan and Littlefield, 2009) 186.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref9">[9]</a> William Lane Craig “The Craig/Kurtz Debate: Is Goodness Without God Good Enough” Eds Robert K Garcia and Nathan King <em>Is Goodness Without God Good Enough? A Debate on Faith Secularism and Ethics</em> (Lanhan: Rowan and Littlefield, 2009) 30.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref10">[10]</a> Mark C Murphy &#8220;Theism, Atheism and the Explanation of Moral Value” eds Robert K Garcia and Nathan King <em>Is Goodness Without God Good Enough? A Debate on Faith Secularism and Ethics</em> (Lanhan: Rowan and Littlefield, 2009) 127.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref11">[11]</a> Ibid.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref12">[12]</a> William Lane Craig “The Indefensibility of Theistic Meta-Ethical Foundations for Morality” <em>Foundations</em> 5 (1997) 9.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref13">[13]</a> Craig “This Most Gruesome of Guests” 168.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref14">[14]</a> Ibid, 293.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref15">[15]</a> Edward Weirenga <em>The Nature of God: An Inquiry into the Divine Attributes</em> (Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press, 1989) 215-27. See also “Utilitarianism and the Divine Command Theory” <em>American Philosophical Quarterly</em> 21 (1984) 311-318; and “A Defensible Divine Command Theory” <em>Nous</em> 17 (1983) 387-408.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref16">[16]</a> John Hare <em>God&#8217;s Call: Moral Realism, God&#8217;s Commands and Human Autonomy</em> (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2001) 49.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref17">[17]</a> Alvin Plantinga “Naturalism, Theism, Obligation and Supervenience”<br />
 <a href="http://www.ammonius.org/assets/pdfs/plantinga.pdf">www.ammonius.org/assets/pdfs/plantinga.pdf</a>.<br />
 <a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref18">[18]</a> Janine Maree Idziak “In Search of Good Positive Reasons for an Ethics of Divine Commands: A Catalogue of Arguments,” <em>Faith and Philosophy</em> 6:1 (1989) 60.</span></p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><strong>RELATED POSTS:</strong><br />
 <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/05/john-w-loftus-on-the-christian-illusion-of-moral-superiority-part-ii/">John W. Loftus on The Christian Illusion of Moral Superiority Part II</a></p>
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		<title>The Euthyphro Objection Part I: Against Divine Commands &amp; Avoiding Strawmen</title>
		<link>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2007/10/the-euthyphro-dilemma-against-divine-commands-i-avoiding-strawmen.html?utm_source=rss&amp;utm_medium=rss&amp;utm_campaign=the-euthyphro-dilemma-against-divine-commands-i-avoiding-strawmen</link>
		<comments>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2007/10/the-euthyphro-dilemma-against-divine-commands-i-avoiding-strawmen.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 04:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Atheists]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Divine Command Theory]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[God and Morality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Edward Weirenga]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ethics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Euthyphro Dilemma]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Hare]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Peter Singer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philip Quinn]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philosophy of Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Robert Adams]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[William Alston]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandm.churchweb.co.nz/2007/10/the-euthyphro-dilemma-against-divine-commands-i-avoiding-strawmen/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps the most common argument against an appeal to divine commands in ethical reasoning is the Euthyphro dilemma, first articulated by Plato and utilised by numerous critics of divine commands ever since. A representative example of this line of argument occurs in Peter Singer’s widely-acclaimed monograph Practical Ethics. In the first chapter of Practical Ethics, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: justify;">Perhaps the most common argument against an appeal to divine commands in ethical reasoning is the Euthyphro dilemma, first articulated by Plato and utilised by numerous critics of divine commands ever since. A representative example of this line of argument occurs in Peter Singer’s widely-acclaimed monograph<em> Practical Ethics</em>. In the first chapter of <em>Practical Ethics,</em> Singer offers the following argument.</p>
<blockquote style="text-align: justify;"><p>[E]thics is not something intelligible only in the context of religion. I shall treat ethics entirely independent of religion. Some theists say that ethics cannot do without religion because the very meaning of “good” is nothing other than “what God approves”. Plato refuted a similar view more than two thousand years ago by arguing that if the gods approve of some actions it must be because those actions are good, in which case it cannot be the gods’ approval that makes them good. The alternative view makes God’s approval entirely arbitrary: if the gods had happened to approve of torture and disapprove of helping our neighbours, torture would be good and helping our neighbours bad.[i]</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Several features of this critique are noteworthy. Singer identifies a position known as the divine command theory of ethics. He construes this position as the view that “the very meaning of “good” is nothing other than “what God approves.” He bases this on the testimony of “some theists”. Singer’s argument here consists of three stages. He proposes the famous dilemma proposed by Socrates in Plato’s dialogue, <em>Euthyphro</em>. He then claims that divine command theory makes God’s commands arbitrary. He asserts that acceptance of divine command theory entails that paradigmatically-evil actions such as torture could be good. He concludes that divine command theory makes God’s goodness redundant,</p>
<blockquote style="text-align: justify;"><p>Some modern theists have attempted to extricate themselves from this type of dilemma by maintaining that God is good and so could not possibly approve of torture; but these theists are caught in a trap of their own making, for what can they possibly mean by the assertion that God is good? That God is approved by God?[ii]</p>
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<p style="text-align: justify;">In this three part blog series I will respond to the Euthyphro dilemma. In this post I will comment upon Singer’s description of his opponents’ position and suggest it is a straw-man. In the next two posts I will assess the arguments he proposes and argue they are unsuccessful. Contrary to what is commonly asserted in ethics textbooks and first year philosophy lectures, I do not think the Euthyphro dilemma is sound.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">As I stated above, Singer’s argument is an attack upon a position known in the literature as divine command theory or voluntarism. Schneewind notes that in the late Middle Ages two schools emerged as to the relationship between God and the existence of an objective law. The first and older position is known as Intellectualism. In this view, God does not create morality; rather, God’s will is guided by his intellectual knowledge of eternal moral standards. The second position is divine command theory. This position grounded the moral law not so much in God’s intellect but in his will. God himself creates the moral law.[iii]</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">It is worth noting at this juncture that divine command theory is only one possible way of construing the nature of divine law and since Singer only offers an argument against this position, even if his argument is sound it fails to establish that the idea of divine law is problematic. Nevertheless, even as a critique of this theory the argument appears to attack a straw man.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Singer construes divine command theory as claiming “the very meaning of ‘good’ is nothing other than ‘what God approves.’” It appears then that Singer characterises divine command theory as a theory about the meaning of the evaluative term “good”; however, this is a caricature.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Few, if any, notable defenders of divine command theory propose it as a theory about the meaning of the term ‘good’. This is demonstrated by examining the literature of those contemporary theists who do defend versions of the theory. A notable, contemporary defender of divine command theory is Robert Adams. In Divine Command Ethics Modified Again and later in his monograph Finite and Infinite Good, Adams puts forward the view that “ethical wrongness <em>is</em> (i.e., is identical with) the property of being contrary to the commands of a loving God”.[iv] [<em>Emphasis original</em>]</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Note two things here; firstly, Adams does not offer a theory about ‘the good’ but explicitly limits his theory to deontological properties such as wrongness. Secondly, his theory is not about the meaning of terms; rather it is a metaphysical claim about identity.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">This last distinction is important. Contemporary philosophy of language offers several examples of this distinction between two terms having the same meaning and two things being identical. One of the most famous is the relationship between water and H20. Water is H20. This is a claim of identity. The liquid on earth that we call water is hydrogen hydroxide. However, this is not a claim of meaning. The claim that water is H20 is not an analytic truth that is true in virtue of the meaning of the words, rather it is a claim discovered by empirical investigation. Moreover, a competent language user could refer to water and understand the meaning of this term without needing to know about the atomic structure H20. Similar examples are available with such claims as ‘the morning star is the evening star’ or ‘Superman is Clark Kent.’ In each case, we have a statement of identity that is distinct from the claim that two words have the same meaning. Adams then explicitly denies he is proposing the position Singer attributes to modern theists.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Similar things can be said about the other major defenders of divine command theory. William Alston holds that divine commands are constitutive of deontological properties and notes Adam’s identity claim as a paradigm of the type of relationship he is defending.[v]</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Philip Quinn defends a version of divine command theory that is limited to the deontological status of actions.</p>
<blockquote style="text-align: justify;"><p>In speaking of the deontological status of an action, I mean to refer to whether it has such properties as being morally permitted, being morally forbidden or prohibited, and being morally obligatory or required.[vi]</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Quinn argues that God’s commands cause or bring about these properties. He specifically denies that he is offering a theory of ‘the good’ in general or that the relationship between God’s commands and moral properties is one of meaning. In fact, he argues against such a view.[vii]</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Edward Weirenga defends a similar theory proposing that divine commands are those properties of actions that make them possess deontic properties such as right and wrong. He does not affirm that the word ‘good’ means commanded by God.[viii] Similarly, John Hare argues, “that what makes something obligatory for us is that God commands it”.[ix]</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">This is not just true of contemporary defenders of divine command theory. In a survey of the historical literature, Janine Marie Idziak notes that, historically, divine command theory was usually understood as a theory about what makes actions right and wrong and not a theory about the meaning of moral terms.[x] Moreover, historically, divine command theorists such as Locke[xi] and Puffendorf limited it to deontological properties and not to broader axiological properties such as goodness.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Robert Adams did defend a semantic theory in some of his earlier writings but, as noted, he later rejected his theory in favour of the one I sketched above. Moreover, the semantic theory Adams did initially defend bears little resemblance to the interpretation of divine command theory made by Singer. Adams explicitly asserted that his theory was limited to analysing the meaning of the word wrong and not broader notions such as goodness. Moreover, it was limited to an analysis of what the word means in Judeo-Christian discourse not what the word meant in general.[xii]</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">It is difficult then to ascertain to whom exactly Singer is referring when he states “Some theists” hold this view and he fails to provide any citations as to whom he is referring. He appears to attack a straw man that has little resemblance to the theory as it has usually been articulated and defended in both historical and contemporary literature.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Not only does Singer attack a straw man but attention to the arguments he uses reveals that in the very next sentence he changes his interpretation from a theory of meaning to a dependence or causal theory. Immediately after stating, “the very meaning of “good” [is nothing other than] what God approves”, Singer follows Plato in suggesting that either something is good because God approves of it or God approves of it because it is good.[xiii] However, this presupposes that the relationship between divine approval and goodness is some kind of asymmetrical relationship where one entity in the relationship is temporally or ontologically prior to the other.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">If, as Singer maintains, divine command theory is the claim that “the very meaning of ‘good’ is nothing other than ‘what God approves’,” then the relationship between divine approval and goodness is not an asymmetrical relationship but rather a relationship of meaning so this dilemma simply does not apply.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Consider the following example. A person tells you that a bachelor is an unmarried man because the word bachelor means unmarried man. It would not make sense to respond to this claim ‘yes, but is he a bachelor because he is unmarried or is he unmarried because he is a bachelor?’ A person’s unmarried-ness is not prior to or the cause of his bachelorhood nor is his bachelorhood the cause of his being unmarried. His being unmarried is just a different way of referring to his bachelorhood. The relationship between a bachelor and an unmarried man is not causal; the relationship is one of meaning.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Immediately after stating that divine command theory is a theory about the meaning of terms, Singer offers an objection that presupposes it is not a semantic theory but a causal one. However, only a few lines later he offers the following objection to the theory “what can they [theists] possibly mean by the assertion that God is good? That God is approved by God?”[xiv] Here Singer’s objection relies on the claim that good means approved by God in order to generate the trap he refers to. Not only does Singer attack a straw man but also his target appears to change throughout the discussion. In fact, it appears to change in order to fit the objections raised.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">In <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2007/10/the-euthyphro-objection-ii-arbitrariness.html">Part II</a> I look at arbitrariness.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: x-small;">[i] Singer,<em> Practical Ethics</em>, (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1993), 3.<br />
 [ii] Ibid., 3-4.<br />
 [iii] Jerome Schneewind, <em>The Invention of Autonomy</em> (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1998), 8-9.<br />
 [iv] Robert Adams, “Divine Command Meta-Ethics Modified Again,” <em>Journal of Religious Ethics</em> 7:1 (1979): 76.<br />
 [v] William Alston, “Some Suggestions for Divine Command Theorists,” in <em>Christian Theism and the Problems of Philosophy</em>, ed. Michael Beaty (Notre Dame, IN: University of Notre Dame Press, 1990), 303-304.<br />
 [vi] Phillip Quinn, “An Argument for Divine Command Theory,” in C<em>hristian Theism and the Problems of Philosophy</em>, ed. Michael Beaty (Notre Dame, IN: University of Notre Dame Press, 1990), 291.<br />
 [vii] Ibid., 293.<br />
 [viii] Edward Weirenga, <em>The Nature of God: An Inquiry into the Divine Attributes</em>, (Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press, 1989), 215-27. See also “Utilitarianism and the Divine Command Theory,” <em>American Philosophical Quarterly</em> 21 (1984): 311-318 and “A Defensible Divine Command Theory,” <em>Nous</em> 17 (1983): 387-408.<br />
 [ix] John Hare, <em>God&#8217;s Call: Moral Realism, God&#8217;s Commands and Human Autonomy</em>, (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2001), 49.<br />
 [x] Janine Maree Idziak, “In Search of Good Positive Reasons for an Ethics of Divine Commands: A Catalogue of Arguments,” <em>Faith and Philosophy</em> 6:1 (1989): 60.<br />
 [xi] For a defence of the claim that Locke was a voluntarist see Francis Oakley &amp; Elliot W. Urdang, “Locke, Natural Law and God,” <em>Natural Law Forum</em>, 11 (1966): 92-109.<br />
 [xii] Robert Adams, “A Modified Divine Command Theory of Ethical Wrongness” In <em>Divine Commands and Morality</em>, ed. Paul Helm (New York: Oxford University Press, 1981), 83-108.<br />
 [xiii] Singer, <em>Practical Ethics</em>, 4.<br />
 [xiv] Ibid., 3-4.<br />
 [xv] Ibid.<br />
 [xvi] Ibid., 40.</span></p>
<p><strong>RELATED POSTS:</strong><br />
 <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2007/10/the-euthyphro-objection-ii-arbitrariness.html">The Euthyphro Objection Part II: Arbitrariness</a><br />
 <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2007/11/euthyphro-objection-iiithe-redundancy-of-god-is-good.html">Euthyphro Objection Part III: The Redundancy of God is Good</a></p>
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		<title>Religion and Public Life: A Response to Russell Brown and Paul Litterick</title>
		<link>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2007/08/religion-and-public-life-a-response-to-russell-brown-and-paul-litterick.html?utm_source=rss&amp;utm_medium=rss&amp;utm_campaign=religion-and-public-life-a-response-to-russell-brown-and-paul-litterick</link>
		<comments>http://www.mandm.org.nz/2007/08/religion-and-public-life-a-response-to-russell-brown-and-paul-litterick.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 23:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Madeleine</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Atheists]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Current Events]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion and Public Life]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christopher Eberle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Nicholas Wolterstorff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Paul Litterick]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Philip Quinn]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Rationalists]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandm.churchweb.co.nz/2007/08/religion-and-public-life-a-response-to-russell-brown-and-paul-litterick/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Paul Litterick was recently interviewed by Russell Brown on Public Address. The topic predictably is his criticism of conservative Christian groups whom Russell appears to have no time for. Here I will make to criticisms of this broadcast, first one of Russell Brown and the second of Litterick.
Turning first to Russell Brown; Brown mentioned in [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: justify;"><a href="http://fundypost.blogspot.com/">Paul Litterick</a> was recently interviewed by Russell Brown on <a href="http://publicaddress.net/system/topic,618,pa_radio_paul_litterick_of_the_fundy_post.sm">Public Address</a>. The topic predictably is his criticism of conservative Christian groups whom Russell appears to have no time for. Here I will make to criticisms of this broadcast, first one of Russell Brown and the second of Litterick.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Turning first to Russell Brown; Brown mentioned in detail the New Zealand Association of Rationalist Humanist&#8217;s (NZARH) exposure of Bruce Logan’s plagiarism, elaborated how this damaged Maxim’s credibility and meant they had little media respectability as a result. It was also stressed on the show that this incident showed that they were a bogus think tank.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">However, Brown seemed almost silent about <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2007/07/when-rationalists-implode.html">NZARH’s own apparent deception</a> that both <a href="http://fundypost.blogspot.com/2007/06/university-of-brigadoon.html">Litterick</a> and <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2007/07/rationalists-round-two.html">I</a> have discussed. Yet it is clear from what Brown does say that he does know about it but he omits to mention it &#8211; even in contexts where it is relevant.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">For example, Brown mentions that there was an interesting story about Littericks falling out with NZARH but will not go into the details and he queried why Litterick even made the issues of the falling out public but he never ventures to state what they were.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">There seems to me to be a clear double standard here. NZARH make media comment about religion and public issues, so do Maxim. If Logan’s deception is newsworthy and calls into question Maxim’s media credibility then why is this not equally true of NZARH?</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Moreover, if Brown feels it is acceptable to make Logan’s alleged plagiarism public, which he does on his show, why then does he query the appropriateness of bringing up NZARH’s actions on air? Is privacy something that applies only to secularists perhaps?</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Turning now to Litterick; Litterick states he has no issue with private faith but is opposed to religious values guiding public policy. This is because he is concerned that the views of one group of society (those with a religious faith) are being used to restrict the freedoms of everyone else in society, many of who do not accept the religious beliefs in question and may in fact openly reject them.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Now this is a common line of argument. However, despite its pervasiveness, this argument is erroneous. In the literature on Religion and Public Life Christian Philosophers like <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Religion-Public-Square-Convictions-Counterpoint/dp/0847683427/ref=sr_1_1/104-1752773-2047921?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1186098167&amp;sr=1-1">Nicholas Wolterstorff</a>, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0521011558/sr=1-1/qid=1186098264/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful/104-1752773-2047921?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;n=283155&amp;qid=1186098264&amp;sr=1-1#customerReviews">Christopher Eberle</a> and <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Religion-Contemporary-Liberalism-Paul-Weithman/dp/0268016593/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-1752773-2047921?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;qid=1186098396&amp;sr=1-2">Philip Quinn</a> have published cogent rebuttals of it. Here I can summarise the issues.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">The main problem with this criticism of using religious beliefs to guide public policy is that exactly the same thing can be said about secular, non-theological beliefs. Beliefs that Litterick and Brown hold to and would advocate public policy changes on the basis of. Phillip Quinn articulates this point,</p>
<blockquote style="text-align: justify;"><p>&#8230; if the fact that religious reasons can not be shared by all in a religiously pluralistic society suffices to warrant any exclusion of religious reasons for advocating or supporting restrictive laws or policies, then much else ought in fairness also be excluded on the same grounds.<a style="mso-footnote-id: ftn1;" name="_ftnref1" href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2007/08/paul-litterick-from-is-interviewed-by.html#_ftn1">[1]</a></p>
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<p style="text-align: justify;">Quinn notes correctly that secular moral theories such as Utilitarianism or Kantianism, Intuitionism, Socialism, Libertarianism, can all be reasonably rejected in a philosophically-pluralistic society.</p>
<blockquote style="text-align: justify;"><p>Indeed, it would seem that the appeal to any comprehensive ethical theory, including all known secular ethical theories, should be disallowed on the grounds that every such theory can be reasonably rejected by some citizens in a pluralistic democracy. And if justification of restrictive laws or policies can be conducted only in terms of moral considerations no citizen of a pluralistic democracy can reasonably reject, then in a pluralistic democracy such as ours very few restrictive laws or policies would be morally justified, a conclusion that would, I suspect, be welcome only to anarchists.<a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2007/08/paul-litterick-from-is-interviewed-by.html#_ftn1">[2]</a></p>
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<p style="text-align: justify;">Quinn is substantially correct here. There is special pleading going on whereby theological beliefs are rejected on certain grounds while secular ones are not, even though the same grounds and reasons should lead to their rejection as well. If it’s unjust to restrict a person&#8217;s freedom on the basis of beliefs held by only some members of the community and which are rejected by others then all laws are unjust.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">It could be added that such arguments are frequently incoherent. After all, such beliefs propose a moral viewpoint that many reject, the view that theological beliefs are not to be appealed to in public. Given that many reject this view, some people think that they should be appealed to in public, it should not be appealed to in public debate about policy. Moreover, since this position is generally defended by appeals to normative principles about freedom or pluralism or conceptions of equality that many reject, many of the arguments for this conclusion should not be utilised in public debate either.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Perhaps, however, I am being uncharitable here, perhaps what Litterick means to assert is not that the religious beliefs can be reasonably rejected by some people &#8211; that would, as I note above, lead to anarchism &#8211; rather, his point is that a majority of people reject them. This too, however, is problematic.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Implicit in this argument is the claim that a necessary condition for any principle to be utilised in public debate is that the majority accepts it as true. However, this is subject to numerous counter-examples. Consider a culture where the majority believes that a husband has the right to beat his wife. Would an advocate of majoritarianism contend that in such a society criticism by a feminist minority of this practice and the advocacy of norms forbidding spousal abuse is an unacceptable imposition of a narrow, feminist perspective in a pluralistic society? Would it be true that in such a society public policy could not be based on the moral principle that it is wrong for a man to beat his wife?</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Consider an Islamic society where the majority believe that conversion to a rival, trinitarian monotheistic religion is immoral and should be a capital offence. Not to execute converts to Judaism or Christianity in such a society would, by this reasoning, be unjust. In societies where a racial majority thinks a racial minority is sub-human, it would be unjust to grant equal human rights.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">There is a further objection to this argument. Many normative positions that are currently supported by the majority or a wide section of the populace were once minority views. Over time, however, the minority has persuaded others and or converted them to its cause. If “narrow” views are to be excluded, this type of reform is not possible. A minority would never be able to propose its ideas until it was no longer a minority view. However, it cannot cease to be a minority view unless it is proposed in the first place. Consequently, this stance freezes societies in whatever popular prejudices currently exist. The reforming minority that critiques contemporary culture would be effectively silenced if we were to hold that only the views of the majority are the just ones.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">So in sum: It seems to be that Russell Brown is inconsistent in his treatment of the issue and Litterick uses common but erroneous and, I think, discredited arguments to justify his secularist stance.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><a style="mso-footnote-id: ftn1;" name="_ftn1" href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref1">[1]</a> Phillip Quinn, “Political Liberalism and their Exclusion of the Religious,” in <em>Religion and Contemporary Liberalism</em>, ed. Paul Weithman (Notre Dame, IN: University of Notre Dame Press, 1997), 144.<br />
<a style="mso-footnote-id: ftn2;" name="_ftn2" href="http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=5710845602477644495#_ftnref2">[2]</a> Ibid.</span></p>
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